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This thread really is highlighting my point about this forum very wonderfully. That none of you appear to realise it makes it all the more delicious.

No. All this thread shows is that a bunch of people disagree quite strongly with many opinions advanced by 20 Eyes on Talkswindon and 20's subsequent protestations of 'forum cliques' gave me a hearty chuckle. I thank him/her for that although I'm also starting to pity 20 a little.

If the subject matter of this topic is 'delicious', then 20 could be suffering from a rare and debilitiating type of synaesthesia with undertones of paranoia. 

Not licking the monitor might help....  :santa_grin:

I choose not to eat meat (in part because I'm concerned about animal welfare issues).

Same here, my original motivation for going veggie was the welfare of the animal that ends up on someone's plate.

Every so often this religious discrimination / animal welfare thing blows up, so I thought I'd look a few things up. First, Compassion in World Farming's view on halal and religious slaughter.

Quote from: CIWF
Compassion in World Farming believes that all slaughter should be humane, which means that animals must be stunned prior to slaughter using a method that causes immediate unconsciousness or, in the case of gas stunning, does not cause distress during the period before loss of consciousness.

We understand that in the UK, over 90% of animals slaughtered for Halal meat are stunned before slaughter; however, animals slaughtered for Kosher meat are in general not stunned before slaughter.

Sounds like a reasonable position to me.

So what are the actual requirements of the slaughter process to make the result halal or kosher?

I found this on RSPCA Australia's site.

Quote from: RSPCA Australia
A standard for meat production in Australia is that all animals must be effectively stunned prior to slaughter. A form of halal slaughter complies with the standard and is commonly used in export abattoirs. The only difference between this halal-slaughter method is that it uses a reversible (electrical) stunning method, while conventional humane slaughter uses an irreversible (physical) stunning method.

So it seems possible for an animal to be stunned before slaughter, and the resulting product to still be halal.

Looking for information about kosher slaugher, RSPCA Australia turned up again.

Quote from: RSPCA Australia
Kosher meat must be slaughtered in a particular way, so the rabbi in a kosher meat plant is a specially trained religious slaughterer. The animal must be killed so it feels little pain. A sharp knife is used to cut the oesophagus, the trachea, carotid arteries and jugular veins in one action. Excessive pressure on the blade is forbidden. The animal is raised so blood flows out and this is then covered with dirt. Failure to do any of these acts correctly means the animal is unfit to eat.

A standard for meat production in Australia is that all animals must be effectively stunned prior to slaughter. However, there are instances where the relevant state or territory meat-inspection authority can approve an abattoir for ritual slaughter for the domestic market. Requirements for this type of slaughter – including kosher slaughter – are set out in a nationally adopted guideline Ritual Slaughter for Ovine (Sheep) and Bovine (Cattle). In kosher slaughter, pre-slaughter stunning is not permitted.

So we've got a bit of a problem making animal welfare compatible with the kosher rules.

But, from a food labelling point of view, I think we've established that "this food is compliant with your religious beliefs" is not necessarily the same as, nor is it mutually exclusive of, "this animal was slaughtered whilst fully conscious".

OK, taking a few steps back and viewing the bigger picture...

I think people are right to be concerned about the way in which animals are slaughtered for food, especially if it involves unnecessary suffering. But I think that pales into insignificance compared to the conditions that some of these animals are held in for their entire lives right up to that point.

How about proper, comprehensive food labelling?

"This chicken was bred to grow at many times its natural rate, had the tip of its beak cut off with a hot knife, spent its entire life in a giant overcrowded shed with no access to sunlight and a floor covered in poo, and was stunned before slaughter. £1.50 or 3 for £4"

"Their study recommended that local authorities should sell off practically everything; markets, golf courses, theatres, public halls, vehicle and ground maintenance, cemeteries, catering, sports centres, accounting, computing etc."

Before you cast these thoughts aside at least consider them very carefully.  Perhaps a golf course isn't what council tax money should be used to provide?  I remember when golf was an elitist 'sport' and where membership of the Golf Club was restricted to the great and the good. Maybe sports centres are best left to people like David lloyd? Have you thought less of the Wyvern since the Council licensed a third party company to run it?. 

Sadly, some tough choices do need to be made as to what facilities council's should be running
For those who've ben here (TS) a while, should we rename 20eyes as 20Magic?
A not disimilar method of interaction, perhaps?

Comon' 20 - come clean - what was your Adver comments section pseudonym?

It's Mr Blackwell apparently eh 20Eyes aka the Pantomime Troll
Saying and doing are different.

As usual we'll see, in hindsight, whether  promises are lived up to.

Almost makes you consider taking up gambling... I wonder what the odds being offered at the bookies are.....could be a whole new investment opportunity....

Meanwhile the developers are still trying to nick our green spaces..I didn't notice any reference to this....
Well wrap up warm and sharpen that pencil for another of your fascinating complaint letters to the Council eh old bean...
An interesting read, "Real terms, Real impact" very thought provoking
(PS - seeing as you decided to get all pedandic with Muggins and her mispelling of 'Trek', I thought that you might enjoy the following observation -
from Tha National
: you say? Was it from the Yorkshire edition?)


It was actually Chav, not Muggins.

Another Tobes' fail.


Yes I stand corrected - I spelled 'Trek' wrong   :santa_smiley:
Human error I'm afraid .
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