Talkswindon Archive - 2005 to 2010

Politics: Swindon & Westminster => Justin Tomlinson MP - Swindon North => Topic started by: Richard Symonds on November 18, 2010, 01:07:17 pm

Title: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Richard Symonds on November 18, 2010, 01:07:17 pm
I thought readers would like to read the following letter in today's adver

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/swindonletters/8668788.Letter_from_Justin_Tomlinson_MP/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/swindonletters/8668788.Letter_from_Justin_Tomlinson_MP/)

AFTER Reading the letter from Dr John Forster-Heatlie (November 9), I was delighted to have the opportunity to discuss the issues raised with Dr Forster-Heatlie directly.

Firstly, I was asked on behalf of a resident to confirm the MOD travel expenses, for which the figures - like any Government expenditure - are regularly reviewed. Myself and my colleague Robert Buckland MP are often given suggestions for how taxpayers’ money can be saved, and we will always endeavour to forward these on to the relevant departments for consideration. I am delighted that Dr Forster-Heatlie will be bringing forward his own suggestions.

Secondly, in relation to my own travel expenses, I can confirm that I travel by train between Swindon and London once a week on a Super Saver Return ticket costing £39.80. I do not claim for first class travel, petrol or taxis, or nor will I claim for travel within Swindon or London. Following on from the expenses scandal which blighted all politicians, I also will not claim for food or mobile phone expenses.

The decision to share offices and staff with Robert Buckland MP means further significant savings are being made. Politicians have a long way to go to restore trust with the public; for my part, I will do my best always to treat taxpayers’ money with the same respect as I would my own.

JUSTIN TOMLINSON MP

Conservative, North Swindon

Milton Road

I just loved the following bit..

"Myself and my colleague Robert Buckland MP are often given suggestions for how taxpayers’ money can be saved, and we will always endeavour to forward these on to the relevant departments for consideration."

I do hope that our illustrious MP for Swindon North is never given the Education Portfolio, his grammar is atrocious.  Where on earth was he educated?

Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Muggins on November 18, 2010, 01:50:02 pm
Never mind his grammar at least the bloke can string two words together.

My concern is that in an effort to be seen as a reasonable person, he may have gone too far in what he is not claiming.

What we don't want him doing at some point in the future, thinking we are all ungrateful so and so's because it cost him - personally - so much. 

The next person to do the job may not havea personal fortune or be so young and agile.



Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mellon on November 18, 2010, 02:02:50 pm
I know how he can save money, that's for another post. I think the big thing justin needs to look into is where did the millions of pounds of developers contributions to SBC go to?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Des Morgan on November 18, 2010, 02:17:05 pm
At least we know where Justin stands on this very sensitive issue.  In todays daily 'rags' we read of a 'great success for democracy' - a Labour MP (PPS to Harriet Harman), using the somewhat archane expedient of shouting 'object' druing the reading of a bill; managed to ensure the names of all those MP's who 'fiddled' their expenses but quietly re-paid them, will never be named and shamed. We will never know who they were - is that right and proper?  Shame on Labour and double shame on Ms Harman who prides herself on standing up for equality - other than in this case!

Oh and before someone tells me it wasn't actually Ms Harman who did the shouting, let's be clear that her PPS doesn't so much as break wind without her knowing and possibly giving her consent.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Richard Symonds on November 18, 2010, 06:56:41 pm
Never mind his grammar at least the bloke can string two words together.


Well Muggins I am glad to see you recognise the important aspects of being an MP, but surely the proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say and to date the boy protesteth too much, not of what he is doing but that which he is not doing.  If he were my MP I would want to see some serious action.

I hope he is at Isambard tonight and will break some more encouraging news to endorse his 'action man' image!
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: kohima on November 18, 2010, 07:33:52 pm
Des, in all this current mud slinging, its nice to see you noticed that bit of horse play as well, I thought I was the only one but didnt go to print as some 'expert' Im sure would have put it down to D Mail rubbish........ :knuppel2:
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver Publishes Accounts?
Post by: Ringer on November 19, 2010, 07:57:23 am
Publishing and writing about his expenses as he promised is  O0 When will he do the same with the North and South Swindon accounts, which are I think a couple of years overdue?  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: kohima on November 19, 2010, 08:18:59 am
I wonder if those accounts will show what happened to the money given by Tesco,  about 6 years ago, this money had to be given, in exchange for the permission to knockdown the old Wills social club and the then extension of the Tesco store, which in the course of time came to nothing more than a bigger car park, but the money, to be used to refurbish the shops in Gorsehill has never been seen..
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mellon on November 19, 2010, 08:32:52 am
Has Justin published the accounts for the william pitt club yet?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on November 19, 2010, 08:35:25 am
I wonder if those accounts will show what happened to the money given by Tesco,  about 6 years ago, this money had to be given, in exchange for the permission to knockdown the old Wills social club and the then extension of the Tesco store, which in the course of time came to nothing more than a bigger car park, but the money, to be used to refurbish the shops in Gorsehill has never been seen..

Perhaps whilst you are asking that question you can ask what happened to the monies from Haydon 1,2 & 3. Cllr Tomlinson now the MP ask him does he know he represented the area for 10 years? (You were quick enough to contact cllr Martin recently, over the Kent question do the same now.) Read the FOI on TS and then copy it placing the word Tesco money in there instead of Haydon, I am sure you will get an answer to your FOI question, using what do they know.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mart on November 19, 2010, 09:25:20 pm
"Myself and my colleague Robert Buckland MP are often given suggestions for how taxpayers’ money can be saved, and we will always endeavour to forward these on to the relevant departments for consideration."


How come there is two of them doing one person's job then. Everybody else who has hung onto their job is getting used to 1 person doing 2 persons jobs.

We are all in this together. Yes indeedy.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on November 20, 2010, 08:09:35 am
Mart

Justin Tomlinson MP & Robert Buckland MP must share somethings, for example  one  town, which is divided between the pair of them and one conservative association.  I think they may also be sharing offices and staff? I believe both are also members of associated with the William Pitt Club? It may not be unreasonable to think that they are almost certainly likely to have shared  between them some of the funds raised by events and promotions they have held and  maybe any donations from supporters that contributed towards their election campaign expenses that finally got both of them elected?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mart on November 20, 2010, 09:42:12 am
And a shared political ideology.

So why have 2 clones (send on the clones, there are to be clones)? Lets dump one and save the country £200k a year, probably more if you lump in pensions etc We can't afford a single person in many roles we thought previously indispensible, and many teams we thought could not operate below a certain level of manning now in fact scrape along at a fraction of their previous numbers.

Every supporting function of government is being slashed, probably correctly in some cases, probably not so in others, most of us have been, are, or will be on nodding terms with redundancy, pay freezes and pay cuts so why should such an obviously expensive body of debatable efficiency amble on sublimely unaffected?

We are, as I am fed up reminding people, all in this together.

Do your MP's cost in?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Richard Symonds on November 20, 2010, 11:51:38 am
With all this sharing is one of the dynamic duo redundant?

The question is which one?

Robert Buckland or Justine Tomlinson?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: kohima on November 20, 2010, 12:00:05 pm
Mart, I thought that at present there is a bill doing the rounds which supports the idea of electorial change in so much as who represents who and the need for so many MPs is reduced to cut costs, No surprise that Labour put the oar in and said no to it, Towns like Swindon could than revert to a one MP town and others to follow, and perhaps Ringer will tell us how much was provided for funds to the prospective two Labour MPs election trail and how that was spent and by whom it came from.
It has been said that the Unions have given million to the Labour cause, Perhaps that is why Bliar is now going around setting up his own banking system.......(my signature for £10!).
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mart on November 20, 2010, 08:34:20 pm
I think you are right, somewhere there is a paper, or sumfink, that says we are over represented.

I'd agree in terms of numbers, but argue in terms of opinion.

Fact is we end up with one of three strains of feckin idiot who push their party line, full feckin stop. And we are excess one feckin idiot.

If we had true representation we would have the death penalty, closed shops on Sundays and a dearth of Polish plumbers. Might not be right, but that's what we would have. Perhaps we should have what we want, it might make us better people.

I really fail to see the point of voting for people who promise the earth prior to elections then slip into the con=mfy old rut of party rules, we are governed top down and not bottom up whatever claims are made about open government and similar bollocks.

There will be no democracy until the first head is severed, dipped in pitch and plonked on a conspicuous bridge.

I won't hold me breath.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: kohima on November 20, 2010, 11:11:51 pm
Mart, the idiots have broken into the allotment site again tonight, about 5 sheds opened up and a dumper truck and mechanical digger on the other side of the fence set on fire, and they say this is a nice place to live with morons about like this..
regards
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on November 21, 2010, 09:50:23 am
Mart, the idiots have broken into the allotment site again tonight, about 5 sheds opened up and a dumper truck and mechanical digger on the other side of the fence set on fire, and they say this is a nice place to live with morons about like this..
regards

Complain to your MP about it, I am sure they will assist you.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Steve Wakefield on November 21, 2010, 11:35:27 am
I am saddened to hear this as people love their allotments, when I was a child I enjoyed going down to the allotments and chatting to the old boys who all seemed to have their favourite chair there. I am sure they got out of their homes for some peace and quiet. Much wisdom was handed out along with tea and butties.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mart on November 21, 2010, 01:42:03 pm
I might just stick with no shed.

What I just fail to understand is the why of it, it seems to be if I can't have it neither can you, even if I don't want it.

You can stick your liberal educative approach, conspicious punitive action is all that will work, catch them, name them, shame them and punish them out of all proportion to the crime, by today's standards anyway.

The restorative effect of self indulgent vengeance should not be underestimated, it is much healthier than pent up rage and frustration.

Bet they were all under 21, male, local, pissed and not in full time employment. There's a provocative generalisation for you, anyone care to take that wager?

They will all own a baseball cap and at least one will be named after a soap character.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Chav on November 21, 2010, 04:07:47 pm
I am saddened to hear this as people love their allotments, when I was a child I enjoyed going down to the allotments and chatting to the old boys who all seemed to have their favourite chair there. I am sure they got out of their homes for some peace and quiet. Much wisdom was handed out along with tea and butties.

I bet you only went down there to nick the cabbages and broadbeans didnt you Mr W ..... :bottom:
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Muggins on November 21, 2010, 04:26:12 pm
MArt said "They will all own a baseball cap and at least one will be named after a soap character."


And said baseball cap will be worn back to front and now covered with an hoodie. 

I was sait on a bus once and noticed that evryone under 25 had abaseball cap work backwards and all the old boys had a cap, peak to the front.

Although a lot of this seems to go on, keep alevel head about it, chances are it was just one or two - tanked up - doing it probably for the first and last time, sort of daring themselves to do something daring.

Probably there is something in the air to make them excited - perhaps it's the news of the royal wedding! I have noticed tha thte youth of today cannot cope well with any changes to their reoutines.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Richard Symonds on November 21, 2010, 06:11:57 pm
Mart, the idiots have broken into the allotment site again tonight, about 5 sheds opened up and a dumper truck and mechanical digger on the other side of the fence set on fire, and they say this is a nice place to live with morons about like this..
regards

Complain to your MP about it, I am sure they will assist you.

What is he going to do about it Ringer?

Wouldn't it be better to ask the members of the Police Authority (Councillors Bluh, Ford and Fisher) to ascertain how the perpetrators can be be caught and pay you all compensation?


Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: kohima on November 21, 2010, 06:19:11 pm
that dumper truck and the digger came from a bristol hire firm, so I would imagine that someone from the council will be having his collar felt in the morning..
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Muggins on November 21, 2010, 06:41:06 pm
Was there no CCTV? 
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Spectre on November 21, 2010, 07:40:45 pm
MArt said "They will all own a baseball cap and at least one will be named after a soap character."


And said baseball cap will be worn back to front and now covered with an hoodie. 

I was sait on a bus once and noticed that evryone under 25 had abaseball cap work backwards and all the old boys had a cap, peak to the front.

Although a lot of this seems to go on, keep alevel head about it, chances are it was just one or two - tanked up - doing it probably for the first and last time, sort of daring themselves to do something daring.

Probably there is something in the air to make them excited - perhaps it's the news of the royal wedding! I have noticed tha thte youth of today cannot cope well with any changes to their reoutines.

Just look at the phase of the moon !

Full moon = Lunatics?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Muggins on November 21, 2010, 07:44:08 pm
Care in the Community has a lot to answer! No that's not fair, I doubt very much the vandals were receiving any care.

It will be interesting to see who did this and what their backgrounds are - where was it exactly?

There still should have been CCTV where there was heavy and expensive machinery.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on November 21, 2010, 07:53:35 pm
Care in the Community has a lot to answer! No that's not fair, I doubt very much the vandals were receiving any care.

It will be interesting to see who did this and what their backgrounds are - where was it exactly?

There still should have been CCTV where there was heavy and expensive machinery.

Why would it have prevented it, it does not. http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question508833.html (http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question508833.html)

The police claims it has failed to slash crime http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/06/ukcrime1 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/06/ukcrime1)
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Tea Boy on November 21, 2010, 07:59:52 pm
Tomorrow could see the biggest act of vandalism perpertrated against our allotments....... By SBC itself!!

Isn't the allotments officer role up for the chop? I have been told the parks deptartment has to lose one officer and it could be her?

Nice girl, and she was really starting to make a diference. Poor show all round. Just when we needed cheap outdoor activities the most.

I think it will be more damaging than any fire and few instances of stolen veg. 
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on November 21, 2010, 08:18:48 pm
Are allotments important to some, but do not appear to be politically important to others? There were a couple of hundred people that voted green in Swindon in May. Maybe they need to get aerated about their officer, rather than just aerating their soil? Spiking the soil may have beneficial qualities, but spiking politicians election chances may have more enjoyable outcomes for some?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: kohima on November 21, 2010, 08:24:39 pm
we have these breakins about 1 a week and its not just veg that goes missing it equipment and the like, you ring the police as I do as the site rep, and be told that I cant ring in such details of the break in, those whose sheds have been damaged must do that and if you send in a report to the council, if you get a reply your lucky.  The lock on our two gates fits every site in Swindon apart from the one at Walcot, who have the new one off locks, you only have to get hold of a key and your in throughout Swindon, tell that to Mr Hambridge and co and your talking to a brick wall..  We did have a lady in charge called Chrystal, who was very good, in what she did and how she went about her job, trouble was she was too good and was replaced....
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on November 21, 2010, 08:28:16 pm
we have these breakins about 1 a week and its not just veg that goes missing it equipment and the like, you ring the police as I do as the site rep, and be told that I cant ring in such details of the break in, those whose sheds have been damaged must do that and if you send in a report to the council, if you get a reply your lucky.  The lock on our two gates fits every site in Swindon apart from the one at Walcot, who have the new one off locks, you only have to get hold of a key and your in throughout Swindon, tell that to Mr Hambridge and co and your talking to a brick wall..

Sounds like an indifferent way for a conservative council to treat paying customers? Maybe you need to speak to Capita? or Symonds or whatever they are called?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Tea Boy on November 21, 2010, 08:34:31 pm
we have these breakins about 1 a week and its not just veg that goes missing it equipment and the like, you ring the police as I do as the site rep, and be told that I cant ring in such details of the break in, those whose sheds have been damaged must do that and if you send in a report to the council, if you get a reply your lucky.  The lock on our two gates fits every site in Swindon apart from the one at Walcot, who have the new one off locks, you only have to get hold of a key and your in throughout Swindon, tell that to Mr Hambridge and co and your talking to a brick wall..

I get the odd stuff nicked, but the major losses are to caterpillars and pidgeons, wheres my air rifle!!. Bit rough to place the blame for the break down in society and lack of police response at the door of Mr H, he's only a council manager and will soon have 3 less staff to get stuff done. I suppose he could individually lock each of your cabbages to the ground?

My allotments is also still on the old key system, I think we are due to get the new one soon. Patience is a virtue. Will that happen now if there is no one to with the drive to do it?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on November 21, 2010, 08:37:44 pm
My allotments is also still on the old key system, I think we are due to get the new one soon. Patience is a virtue. Will that happen now if there is no one to with the drive to do it?

An even bigger society may help out?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Muggins on November 22, 2010, 08:01:13 am
You don't have to have voted Green to enjoy an allotment - what concerns me is, just like Kohima, many don't know where to get quickest action.  Do you not have a Neighbourhood Policing team? Can you not send them Emails?  Either way the police are not goign to drop everything for the sake of cabbages and spades.

I don't bother phoning Mr Hambidge, for one thing he is rarely at his desk. Even his emails come back with 'I am not in the office until.... His job is not to take direct complaints.

To be fair, like I said I don't rely on speaking to him - I contact his underlings (sorry Teaboy).  If you are in an area with Wardens speak to them.

I don't expect CCTV to stop thing happening (although they can be effective for that)  but it will help if a nice little photo has been taken of them that did it.

Wouldn't it help if all the allotment holders clubbed together and got themselves a secure storage unit?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: kohima on November 22, 2010, 08:13:15 am
one of the lads on our site some time ago was boasting that he had just bought a state of the art lock and the haspe and other bits to put on the shed, within two weeks  they broke in and took his door off, those machines have been left out on the track all week, I was wondering if somebody was going to steal them intact, but no the erbs came along and burnt them instead..
they have cctv on the h pool roof but they have refused to move it or put another one up on the pole to look over our area.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Richard Symonds on November 22, 2010, 01:12:50 pm
we have these breakins about 1 a week and its not just veg that goes missing it equipment and the like, you ring the police as I do as the site rep, and be told that I cant ring in such details of the break in, those whose sheds have been damaged must do that and if you send in a report to the council, if you get a reply your lucky.  The lock on our two gates fits every site in Swindon apart from the one at Walcot, who have the new one off locks, you only have to get hold of a key and your in throughout Swindon, tell that to Mr Hambridge and co and your talking to a brick wall..  We did have a lady in charge called Chrystal, who was very good, in what she did and how she went about her job, trouble was she was too good and was replaced....

Take it up with the Police Authority Councillors Messrs Bluh, Ford and Fisher, after all they cost enough c£36k per annum I believe!!
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Chav on November 22, 2010, 05:36:37 pm
we have these breakins about 1 a week and its not just veg that goes missing it equipment and the like, you ring the police as I do as the site rep, and be told that I cant ring in such details of the break in, those whose sheds have been damaged must do that and if you send in a report to the council, if you get a reply your lucky.  The lock on our two gates fits every site in Swindon apart from the one at Walcot, who have the new one off locks, you only have to get hold of a key and your in throughout Swindon, tell that to Mr Hambridge and co and your talking to a brick wall..  We did have a lady in charge called Chrystal, who was very good, in what she did and how she went about her job, trouble was she was too good and was replaced....

Take it up with the Police Authority Councillors Messrs Bluh, Ford and Fisher, after all they cost enough c£36k per annum I believe!!

Or ask to look in Mr W's Shed  :2funny:  (only joking ) !
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on December 24, 2010, 09:23:41 pm
I wonder if those accounts will show what happened to the money given by Tesco,  about 6 years ago, this money had to be given, in exchange for the permission to knockdown the old Wills social club and the then extension of the Tesco store, which in the course of time came to nothing more than a bigger car park, but the money, to be used to refurbish the shops in Gorsehill has never been seen..

It looks like the current lot spent this money and was it used on shop fronts if not maybe thats why it has never been seen?

Quote
15 December 2010

Ref: FOI Freedom of Information Request FOI 101000245521

Thank you for your e-mail dated 19th November 2010 received in our office
on 19th November 2010, concerning a financial donation from Tesco to the
Gorse Hill area.

I enclose for your attention, the following information.

A payment of £30,000 was received by the Council in May 2006, under the
terms of the planning agreement dated 4th November 2004, associated with
planning permission S/03/2835 (and tied to revised permission S/05/0652 by
legal agreement dated 6th July 2005).

An extract from the 2004 agreement below makes reference to the
contribution subject of this enquiry.

Contribution towards the Enhancement of Gorse Hill

Prior to opening,the Developer will pay to the Borough Council Thirty
Thousand Pounds (£30,000) towards the enhancement of Gorse Hill, Swindon
or other such forms of improvement as agreed between the developer and the
Borough Council PROVIDED THAT the enhancement works shall not include any
works that once completed could hinder or impact on the Developer's
trading levels at the existing and extended store on the Land.

The contribution has been allocated to partially fund the St. Marks
Recreation Ground refurbishment works project that delivers enhanced
sports and play facilities in the Ward of Gorse Hill & Pinehurst. Phase 2
of this project is nearing completion.


Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on December 25, 2010, 10:40:43 am
This FOI has proved so useful on the 106 debate to "our friends" the Tories perhaps someone can do one on. What happened to the money from the sale of the brunel that one poster bangs on about?  Still no one has  provided the adver article on the sale of the Brunel. If  anyone does not make an FOI request then maybe they finally accepts what posters on TS have said about the sale of the Brunel? 

Another FOI to help tory friends could be why the Tory led council used money from the sale of the Brunel to pay off the pension hole. It was to fill a gap that was caused by Thatcher who made councils take a pension contribution holiday from 1990 to 2003 to assist with their funding during her early years of cutbacks to services. Spending the family pension pot has hit her heirs aand succesors hard!

It can't be done this time as some council pension funds have still not managed to fill the holes from Thatchers directive. Please if you do not believe this then FOI away.

To help out here is an example from Royal mail to demonstrate it:
Quote
Then there's the pension fund black hole, which stands at over £5 billion, caused by a 13-year "pension holiday" that Royal Mail took from 1990-2003. During this period postal staff still made their pension contributions, but the company didn't pay its share into the pension fund thanks to a change introduced by Margaret Thatcher.

Full article here:
http://www.organizedrage.com/2009/10/why-are-uk-posties-striking.html (http://www.organizedrage.com/2009/10/why-are-uk-posties-striking.html)

Anyway Merry Christmas to you as I am having an "individual" Christmas I may appear a bit sad posting on TS on Christmas day, but to all those surrounded by their families and enjoying their Merry family Christmas all I can say is Bah Humbug! hic, and bottomshss up hic anyone fancy a port and lemon?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Des Morgan on December 25, 2010, 11:27:55 am
Quote
It was to fill a gap that was caused by Thatcher who made councils take a pension contribution holiday from 1990 to 2003 to assist with their funding during her early years of cutbacks to services.

The pension holiday was based on actuarial valuations of pension funds, where some funds were so 'over funded' that there was an absurdity in insisting the companies should continue to pour money into them rather than into the business.

The deal was that in times of plenty the employer could take a holiday BUT when the situation changed the employer would make good any deficit.

In the case of BT the deficit has bulit up over a long period of time and is not solely related to the 'pension holiday' although it undoubtedly contributed - as di Gordon Brown's decision to raid pension funds of tax releif to the tune of £5 billions per year.

The failure of BT and others to remedy the penion deficit is 'criminal' as the money they had an used to fund the business was actually deferred employee remuneration. BT et al have had more than enough years to put matters right and the last Government had the opportunity to force them to correct the imbalance.

I recall when it was clear some employees were going to suffer as a result of company failures, where there was no prospect of the compnay paying back into the pension fund the money they owed, Gordon Brown and tony Blair declared that it was not for future generations to bear the cost (put at £2billions) - however, they soon changed their minds with bankers pensions, BT pensions etc where they guaranteed to underwrite any 'future' costs - irrespective of how much that would cost future generations

Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: moley on December 25, 2010, 12:07:49 pm
everyone's always had a go at Brown over the raid on pension funds.. but one other part of the same legislation made the pension funds start using updated actuarial information (rather than assuming that people still had the same life expectency as they had in the 1960s).

This was one of the reasons the pension holidays were so crazy.... because the valuations were complete rubbish (as people were already living longer)
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Bogomil on December 25, 2010, 01:11:17 pm
(as people were already living longer)
And Thatcher is still alive… getting her pension
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: kohima on December 25, 2010, 07:05:33 pm
If I was able to find the adver article, then I would have had it printed, but my wife thinks the clippings I keep are rubbish,
the sale went through when ?. wasnt it a labour council then, so the question ringer is what did theydo with the money, I have FOI the poiint, and was told that the money was split between the pension hole and building 'refurbhishment', I did question that also, but was told that there are no records for that period now held, so they could not say what the 'refurbishment' was,
I 've looked at that web site, posties striking etc, and had a good laugh, I would agree that there are many posties hard pressed to do the job, there are many who 'double up' every day and so get overtime for doing thier own job plus, there are those who because of their title, stand around and do nothing, and there are those who go sick by the day and nothing done about it, or those who are the blue eyed boys, and so get the 'office' jobs, while the others get sent to shaftesbury.. as for black hole well if the pension fund was in the mire in 97, why didnt Labour do something about it and not let it ride until 2000, that article says the RM is in trouble over losing the monopoly, well who gave that away, yes Labour and what have they done to protect the interests of RM, nothing, just go to dorcan and see the lorry loads of mail coming in that we used to collect and get revenue for,  also did you notice in that gorsehill FOI the small print, which although Tesco had to give money to the shopkeepers, there was a clause, which says they cant use the money to the detriment of tesco losing trade. so that was a no win situation if ever there was one. I expect when the bill for the sale of RM goes through the house of Lords, some wag will complain about tory sell off policy, when they have already tried it.......
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: kohima on December 25, 2010, 07:09:49 pm
Ringer, another point, which you may be able to provide web site details, in the years '97 - 2010, how much did the government actually put into the public pension fund as means of a back up to the funds provided by the employee, which when you think of how many are now in the fund and how many are retired or able to retire at 60, who is paying for that deficit, yes the tax payer...
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on December 25, 2010, 07:25:53 pm
A good post with lots of points about the sale. But It was sold under labour never said it wasn't however the Tories got in as a minority administration for 6 months and did the deed then. Your next post is without a doubt a provoker short and to the point. ;)

Ringer, another point, which you may be able to provide web site details, in the years '97 - 2010, how much did the government actually put into the public pension fund as means of a back up to the funds provided by the employee, which when you think of how many are now in the fund and how many are retired or able to retire at 60, who is paying for that deficit, yes the tax payer...

Kohima

Your above quote  has made a point that in my opinion is possibly the best post of all your posts on TS. Merry Christmas to you. I have posted this as requested . As you point out the last government created the Pension Protection Fund: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3537304/Government-urged-to-guarantee-Pension-Protection-Fund.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3537304/Government-urged-to-guarantee-Pension-Protection-Fund.html)

It is Tax payers money just like all contributions by government to public servant pensions and of course tax relief on pension contributions.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Des Morgan on December 25, 2010, 07:42:37 pm
Quote
As you point out the last government created the Pension Protection Fund:

The problem with the PPF and the FAS is that they give you a pension 'upto' a maximum of 90% of whatever you accrued at the point the scheme closed.  So you may be entitled to say 50% of final salary but you will only receive a maximum of 90% of the amount with no allowance for fund growth in the the next 25 years.  I know people who were 'promised' a pension of £20k per annum, who becasue of the rules will be lucky to get £5k

The banks had enormous pesnion deficits and used taxpayer funds to reduce those deficits.

Royal Mail has an enormous deficit which will be covered in full by the taxpayer
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on December 25, 2010, 07:45:51 pm
Des

Thank you for the post that has really added in an ingredient I had forgotten about the banks!
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Des Morgan on December 26, 2010, 10:03:59 am
When i referred this through Michael Wills to the Chancellor, I received an anodyne answer as follows -

"The position of banking sector pensions differs from that of FAS qualifying scheme members (in that we have to wait for the FAS to determine what we will get and when we will get it - in my case it has been looking at the position for 7 years because the protection given to banking sector pension schemes is an inevtiable consequence of the necessary action taken by the previous Government to protect the country's wider economic interests"

In short bankers and indeed all bank staff had their pension funds enhanced at taxpayer expense
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on December 26, 2010, 10:23:20 am
In short bankers and indeed all bank staff had their pension funds enhanced at taxpayer expense

For me personally that conjures up short changingand pigs snouts in troughs, whilst the taxpayer stands there pockets turned out left skint. Who thought that one up Alan B'Stard? It sounds so New Stateman it must be true! 
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: 20Eyes on December 26, 2010, 10:26:42 am
In short bankers and indeed all bank staff had their pension funds enhanced at taxpayer expense

For me personally that conjures up short changingand pigs snouts in troughs, whilst the taxpayer stands there pockets turned out left skint. Who thought that one up Alan B'Stard? It sounds so New Stateman it must be true!

Wasn't it actually Labour that handed all of our money to the banks so that they could keep up their bonus payments?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on December 26, 2010, 10:36:11 am
Cable and the Tories said they would take it back.. Another song from the 1970s I'm still waiting...  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: 20Eyes on December 26, 2010, 10:40:10 am
Cable and the Tories said they would take it back.. Another song from the 1970s I'm still waiting...  :popcorn:

Once it was given, it was never coming back. Surely that'd be obvious even to the most naive? Cable is now a discredited and failed politician, so anything he's ever said is worthless.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: A Mole on December 26, 2010, 11:48:28 am
 
Once it was given, it was never coming back. Surely that'd be obvious even to the most naive? Cable is now a discredited and failed politician, so anything he's ever said is worthless.
[/quote]

Discredited and failed politician??  To many people, he's more popular than ever!
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: 20Eyes on December 26, 2010, 11:59:35 am
Discredited and failed politician??  To many people, he's more popular than ever!

For what, an old man making silly claims (that he could never have carried through) in front of a young lady who was out to stitch him up? Is that what people admire these days?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: A Mole on December 26, 2010, 12:06:25 pm
No, honesty and a desire to stand up to slavishly corporate greed.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: 20Eyes on December 26, 2010, 12:58:10 pm
No, honesty and a desire to stand up to slavishly corporate greed.

I'm not sure the words 'honesty' and 'Cable' belong in the same sentence anymore.

Let's see how Vince gets on with his little 'stand'.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: A Mole on December 26, 2010, 01:57:31 pm
You're entitled to your opinion.  But millions disagree with you.  To describe Cable as a failed politician is, plainly, false at the present time.  The fact he is still a Cabinet Minister, despite his gaff, speaks volumes.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Des Morgan on December 26, 2010, 02:13:12 pm
Quote
The fact he is still a Cabinet Minister, despite his gaff, speaks volumes.

The fact he ever became a cabinet minister was only because of the coalition, the fact that he is still a cabinet member demonstrates the cowardice of Cameron and Clegg not to mention their hypocricy.  They didn't wait a heartbeat before the consigned Lord Young to the scrapheap.

Cable is a vain man, how else can you explain or excuse his 'desire' to inveigle two pretty girls with details of his personal thoughts, on subjects which he ought to have kept to himself
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: 20Eyes on December 26, 2010, 02:27:38 pm
You're entitled to your opinion.  But millions disagree with you.  To describe Cable as a failed politician is, plainly, false at the present time.  The fact he is still a Cabinet Minister, despite his gaff, speaks volumes.

Yes, it shows that the coalition have been forced to keep the man who said he'd be able to bring it down within their ranks due to wanting to keep up certain pretences.

Great.

Even Cable has described his comments/conduct as 'embarrassing' and yet some still choose to defend him. Weird.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on December 26, 2010, 05:12:07 pm
Cable is a Blabbermouth and I remember John Sopel button holed him on the politics show http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=5609.0 (http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=5609.0) Cameron and Clegg are gutless for not sacking him their weakness will haunt them unless of course Cable was right there is a Tory lead "Maoist" revolution against  the NHS and welfare state with winter fuel payments for pensioners are to be axed? Anyone who thinks cable is more popular now please provide the evidence to back it up. He may be dancing on a TV show but his political foot work is ham fisted.

Quote
Geoff Reid politics Thread

Vince Cable is getting a kicking over the lib dem: 'you'll pay £389 more vat each year under the Tories' claim


He argued with Sopel who showed him up he said you would pay then shifted it to you might pay. Actually both were right only Cable is now. (for the moment) still one of the ones stuffing us all over the VAT rise.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Bogomil on December 26, 2010, 06:12:58 pm
Quote
The fact he is still a Cabinet Minister, despite his gaff, speaks volumes.

The fact he ever became a cabinet minister was only because of the coalition, the fact that he is still a cabinet member demonstrates the cowardice of Cameron and Clegg not to mention their hypocricy.  They didn't wait a heartbeat before the consigned Lord Young to the scrapheap.

Cable is a vain man, how else can you explain or excuse his 'desire' to inveigle two pretty girls with details of his personal thoughts, on subjects which he ought to have kept to himself
Yes, it shows that the coalition have been forced to keep the man who said he'd be able to bring it down within their ranks due to wanting to keep up certain pretences.
Great.
Even Cable has described his comments/conduct as 'embarrassing' and yet some still choose to defend him. Weird.

Des/20aye, as I said in another post…
Well there’s no fool like an old fool. And to be perfectly honest (but totally unPC here so sorry lady TS’er) which of us men haven’t been tempted to buy a barmaid a drink because she’s good looking and given us a bit of flattery?
Afraid my hand goes up straight away.  :santa_embarassed:

I suspect that it’s not a “Honey Trap” that he will be caught quickly again in.
People often say they want their politicians to be in touch with the people, to be at their level and not diffident or remote. Well if people want this then they also have to accept that ALL politicians are human and will make mistakes.
Des/20aye can you in all honesty say that you have never done anything you might not have done due to be flattered?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: 20Eyes on December 26, 2010, 06:20:23 pm
Des/20aye can you in all honesty say that you have never done anything you might not have done due to be flattered?

Honestly? No, I've never done that. I'd also like to think that an older man such as Cable, in the position he's reached, would have more integrity in a professional situation than you or I would down the pub trying to pull.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Des Morgan on December 26, 2010, 08:58:56 pm
Ah - I wish I could, hand on heart say it as 20eye does - but sadly I have been fooled by such flattery.  However, I would like to think I had learned from my indiscretion. I still hold that Mr Cable should have been more 'guarded' in what he said
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: A Mole on December 26, 2010, 09:05:03 pm
I agree.   He should have been more guarded. 

But that doesn't make him, as 20Eyes would have it, a failed politician.  Quite the contrary in many people's eyes. 

Listening to national radio discussions and reading online comments on national newspaper websites across the political spectrum shows strong anecdotal evidence supporting Cable for wanting to stand-up to the relentless commercialisation of organisations such as News International whilst being scathing of the ethics and not-so-hidden agenda of the Telegraph.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mart on December 26, 2010, 09:47:11 pm
scathing of the ethics and not-so-hidden agenda

That's that irony stuff ain't it?

I have a truth I use to preserve my position of power and privilege which makes me somewhat damp, then I have a truth for the oiks who come to bathe in my greatness.

Open government my arse, a holier than thou scrote who professed to be a bit different and a cut above the rest is exposed as a bullshitting two faced twonk just like the majority of the herd.

Big surprise.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mellon on December 26, 2010, 09:59:39 pm
"Jesus H Mart"

I'm resisting the urge to call Tomlinson a lump of fecal matter arranged in a geometric cylinder with topographic irregularities.

I wonder if Mr Tomlinson is struggling in westminster? Anyway where's my Marvin Gaye album....."I heard it through the grapevine....."
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: thinktank on December 28, 2010, 07:59:20 pm
I wonder if Mr Tomlinson is struggling in westminster? Anyway where's my Marvin Gaye album....."I heard it through the grapevine....."

It could be a deal is being done to select a libdem for his seat and not put a conservative up.  If it is not wishful thinking by potential candidates it could be why he is being briefed against. Briefed against don't you love the way  that is the word used when MPs get slagged off. Keeping on the musical theme if he is struggling then he will not be reselected and he will be a 1 hit wonder.
 
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mellon on December 28, 2010, 08:04:25 pm
I wonder if Mr Tomlinson is struggling in westminster? Anyway where's my Marvin Gaye album....."I heard it through the grapevine....."

It could be a deal is being done to select a libdem for his seat and not put a conservative up.  If it is not wishful thinking by potential candidates it could be why he is being briefed against. Briefed against don't you love the way  that is the word used when MPs get slagged off. Keeping on the musical theme if he is struggling then he will not be reselected and he will be a 1 hit wonder.

could you explain that a bit more simply if possible, im having trouble following the first half of your post  :santa_smiley:
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: thinktank on December 28, 2010, 08:09:49 pm
Could a deal be being done between conservatives and libdems to carve up seats in Swindon there are two seats. 1 for a tory and 1 for a libdem.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mellon on December 28, 2010, 08:36:49 pm
Could a deal be being done between conservatives and libdems to carve up seats in Swindon there are two seats. 1 for a tory and 1 for a libdem.

aaah right.....i wouldnt of thought theyd do that to be honest
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: thinktank on December 28, 2010, 08:44:54 pm
Any ideas as to how the conservatives and libdems will decide which constituencies to fight now that they are best friends.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mellon on December 28, 2010, 08:46:26 pm
Any ideas as to how the conservatives and libdems will decide which constituencies to fight now that they are best friends.
dunno, what do you think?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: thinktank on December 28, 2010, 08:50:11 pm
I think they will and it will be seats in the south that are staked out and split up clegg and cameron are probably already talking about it big thumbs on maps and glum faces all around for some conservatives. Libdems will do better as cameron needs them on board, as his and cleggs popularity levels converge.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Muggins on December 29, 2010, 08:54:12 am
Can't see that happening, if there had not been a hung parliament there would have been no partnership.   The aim at the next round of election will be to get out of any need for having a partnership, and having a one party government.

The two main parties will hope it will be them and the Libdems will hope they have done enough as a coalition to get them better turn outs.

I expect/suspect that the libdems are hoping the coalition will last long enough for them to bring in electoral reform which will give them a much better chance of gaining seats.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Ringer on December 29, 2010, 09:00:29 am
Can't see that happening, if there had not been a hung parliament there would have been no partnership.   The aim at the next round of election will be to get out of any need for having a partnership, and having a one party government.

The two main parties will hope it will be them and the Libdems will hope they have done enough as a coalition to get them better turn outs.

I expect/suspect that the libdems are hoping the coalition will last long enough for them to bring in electoral reform which will give them a much better chance of gaining seats.

I will vote no to AV why reward the LibDems.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mart on December 29, 2010, 09:38:14 pm
Democracy in action, don't you just love it?

Fire up the panzers and let loose the dogs of wossname I reckon.

Tories and Lib Dems will fall out spectacularly at some none too distant point I think, luckily Labour are waiting to step in and save the country.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Steve Wakefield on December 29, 2010, 09:54:37 pm
I will vote No to AV, in my opinion  it should be a simple yes or No. How will the question on the ballot papers be written?
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mellon on December 29, 2010, 11:15:57 pm
Its got to happen yet, don't get too excited, they may u-turn yet
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Tobes on December 29, 2010, 11:59:20 pm
Quote
Democracy in action, don't you just love it?

Fire up the panzers and let loose the dogs of wossname I reckon.

Tories and Lib Dems will fall out spectacularly at some none too distant point I think, luckily Labour are waiting to step in and save the country.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

 :agreed:

 :argh:
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Muggins on December 30, 2010, 08:45:57 am
Announced this morning that Ed Milliband intends to change the Labour Party!

What to I wonder? and how he is going to do that?
 
And who made him God?  About time they all started using the 'we' instead of the 'I'.

Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Mart on December 31, 2010, 02:28:41 pm
Is God Labour then? Does changing the Labour Party require divine intervention!!!

Sorry about that, came over all, I dunno, iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.

See what I did there? I suspect it may be irony.

Still not voting for them.

If I have one hope it is that political parties become so irrelevant that whatever they do makes about as much national impact as me changing a light bulb, except their changes will be less illuminating.

The only thing that might animate me was confirmation he was winding it up and the spectacle of the other two arguing it was a bad thing as their ideology compels them to do.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: Geoff Reid on December 31, 2010, 03:53:55 pm

I think, on reflection, I must be an 'oppositionist' because, by and large, I am opposed to the majority of what all major parties appear to 'stand for', but support a small amount of what each party says they stand for.

Except the Parliamentary Liberal Democrats. They have soiled themselves irredeemably imho.

I like Nigel Farage.
Title: Re: Justin Tomlinson Letter to the Adver
Post by: thinktank on December 31, 2010, 08:55:00 pm
Will the Coalition be around in May 2012 or by then will it have morphed into the "wrong trousers" here grommit! :2funny:
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