Author Topic: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?  (Read 15611 times)

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Offline Muggins

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #120 on: December 23, 2010, 09:47:04 am »
Peace on Earth and goodwill to all men - aye!  (forget the women as usual)  :santa_cry:

My ears are ringing and it's not just the flu. 

Isn't it funny how one bad tempered person can influence the temper of others.  Like one bad apple spoiling the barrel.
Lifes not always fair. Sometimes you can get a splinter even sliding down a rainbow. - Cherralea Morgen

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #121 on: December 23, 2010, 11:19:32 am »
People often oppose what they do not understand.

That's probably the one thing that's good about Labour having been in office for 13 years, we all now know only too well why we oppose everything they stand for.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Mellon

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #122 on: December 23, 2010, 12:39:21 pm »
People often oppose what they do not understand.

That's probably the one thing that's good about Labour having been in office for 13 years, we all now know only too well why we oppose everything they stand for.

but you dont oppose everything..........

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Personally, I believe Brown actually did the right thing. I don't think we need conventional armed forces like we used to. It just seemed odd to knock Cameron's cuts but ignore Brown's cuts to the same thing.
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the world together."

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #123 on: December 23, 2010, 02:26:32 pm »
People often oppose what they do not understand.

That's probably the one thing that's good about Labour having been in office for 13 years, we all now know only too well why we oppose everything they stand for.

but you dont oppose everything..........

Quote
Personally, I believe Brown actually did the right thing. I don't think we need conventional armed forces like we used to. It just seemed odd to knock Cameron's cuts but ignore Brown's cuts to the same thing.

I oppose everything they stand for (as I said). However, it's inevitable that in 13 years they did do a few things that weren't wholly detrimental... even if just by accident rather than design.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Mellon

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #124 on: December 23, 2010, 03:40:13 pm »
People often oppose what they do not understand.

That's probably the one thing that's good about Labour having been in office for 13 years, we all now know only too well why we oppose everything they stand for.

but you dont oppose everything..........

Quote
Personally, I believe Brown actually did the right thing. I don't think we need conventional armed forces like we used to. It just seemed odd to knock Cameron's cuts but ignore Brown's cuts to the same thing.

I oppose everything they stand for (as I said). However, it's inevitable that in 13 years they did do a few things that weren't wholly detrimental... even if just by accident rather than design.

well its only accidental by however you perceive it?
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the world together."

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #125 on: December 23, 2010, 04:42:52 pm »
well its only accidental by however you perceive it?

That's true. Everything is perception, ultimately.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline bobwright

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #126 on: December 23, 2010, 04:58:44 pm »
‘I value compassion, flexibility, assertiveness, national pride, selflessness, commonsense, logic, aptitude and the ability to listen to, then realise peoples' dreams in my leaders.’

Mart - we have common ground however I can not let the past mistakes of others or myself handcuff today or the future.

To change things and provide a durable improvement in society using the values you have conveyed they will need to influence and work against bullies, the self interested, the bigoted, the control freaks, the ill informed, the gullible, the revengeful and the down right evil minded.

If I dwelled in the mistakes I would not benefit from the experience of further action. I would not be able to challenge others if I permanently had a monkey on my back. I make the choice that if by working with like minded others, things can improve, then that is the thing to do.  Why should I be limited by the views of those whose only contribution is the reminder of previous mistakes?

I have found a poem that I think helps to understand connection and choice.

One ship drives east and another drives west
With the self same wind that blow
‘Tis the set of the sails
And not the gales
That tells us the way to go
Like the winds of the sea are the ways of fate:
As we voyage along through life,
‘Tis the set of the soul
That decides its goal,
And not the calm, or the strife.

(Ella Wheeler Wilcox)

I know the challenge is to affect those whose base nature is to look after their self interest. To stop them succumbing to the temptation of political power and taking advantage of others. To rise above old divides and differences so that politics becomes trustworthy. I can not see that becoming achievable by just illustrating what we/they got wrong.

By the way I think it is inevitable the change to NHS provision based on Doctors is doomed to fail for the very same reason Politicians fail. Relatively free access to large sums of money and power will see some Doctors fall to temptation.


Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #127 on: December 23, 2010, 05:10:41 pm »
I know the challenge is to affect those whose base nature is to look after their self interest.

Fascism, then?

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Fascists claim that culture is created by the collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus they reject individualism. Viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they see pluralism as a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety.

The welfare state is nothing more than Fascism applied under a sneering veneer of being 'caring'.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #128 on: December 23, 2010, 05:12:50 pm »
 
I make the choice that if by working with like minded others, things can improve, then that is the thing to do.  Why should I be limited by the views of those whose only contribution is the reminder of previous mistakes?

Good and worthy points but be cautious of those who purport to be of 'the same mind' as you Bob, on this one point I would caution you to learn from the mistakes other have already made in their dealings with Der Leader.

Cllr Bluh is as expert at mirroring an attitude, frame of mind or philosophy as a Chameleon is at changing colour.  It may be very useful skill but it's still deception. 

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #129 on: December 23, 2010, 05:23:39 pm »
The welfare state is nothing more than Fascism applied under a sneering veneer of being 'caring'.

Funny that, 'compassionate conservatism' could be described as "nothing more than Fascism applied under a sneering veneer of being caring".  :santa_afro:

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2010, 05:28:23 pm »
Funny that, 'compassionate conservatism' could be described as "nothing more than Fascism applied under a sneering veneer of being caring".  :santa_afro:

I couldn't agree more.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline bobwright

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #131 on: December 23, 2010, 06:04:58 pm »
20Eyes – If I have conveyed fascism then I have clearly failed. I was thinking more in line with the positive attitude shown by Americans based on the ‘American Way’. In spite of all the inequality and greed a large number of people in the States are bound by the idea of the ‘American Way’ no matter what their differences may be.

Geoff – I can not read auras but I know through Kirlianian Photography the colours an individual produces can be understood. If deception is present it will show in the behaviour and colours. If deception is used as a means of leadership it will only affect those willing to be affected. If deception is used to lead then ‘One Swindon’ has no chance because the only foundation which will allow it to succeed is trustworthiness.

Just to add another thought, some judge others by the company they keep. So how do you judge someone who appreciates the warning you have given? My NLP training covered ‘Mirroring’; it also covered ‘Pacing’ so please forgive me if I am a bit slow.

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #132 on: December 23, 2010, 06:19:43 pm »
20Eyes – If I have conveyed fascism then I have clearly failed. I was thinking more in line with the positive attitude shown by Americans based on the ‘American Way’. In spite of all the inequality and greed a large number of people in the States are bound by the idea of the ‘American Way’ no matter what their differences may be.given? My NLP training covered ‘Mirroring’; it also covered ‘Pacing’ so please forgive me if I am a bit slow.

The great thing about the 'American Way' is that it's rooted in individualism, something the the Left aren't keen on (though they may well pretend that's not the case).

Arguably, the Left is at odds with at least two the three tenets:

"life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Mart

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #133 on: December 23, 2010, 07:32:14 pm »
Mart - we have common ground however I can not let the past mistakes of others or myself handcuff today or the future.

I'd agree we probably share the same aspirations, however you seem convinced that the status quo will deliver them, I am equally convinced that it will not. I, obviously, am right. Your system has had donkey's years and fecked everything up, my system of a determinedly apolitical approach based on skilled and experienced leaders compelled to deliver the wishes of the majority of the electorate has not even had a go. So even if I am not right at least I ain't been proved wrong.

You must be mindful of the mistakes of others, let's see, those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it (we should be so lucky). The mistakes made by the present system are significant and the system is little changed, therefore, like it or not, you are handcuffed to it by your wilful association with it.

Befehl ist befehl and all that, you can't be of it and not in it, you have inhaled like it ot not and continue to do so.

P'raps I am a nihilist.
Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.

Offline bobwright

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #134 on: December 24, 2010, 12:11:31 am »
P'raps your just contentious for the right reasons Mart?

20 Eyes - It is not often I am told what values I hold because I am a member of the Labour Party. I have only once experienced anything like what you have described in all your deliberations however even then I made my own mind up based on the evidence I saw for myself. You write as if you are a scorned ex-member seeking to not only rebalance bad experience but to also ascribe values to others as if they were truth. Someone suggested this was due to lack of maturity however I think it more likely to be simple ignorance. Your comments do help me to notice that which I would not have noticed.

Dwight D Eisenhower said "The history of free man is never written by chance but by choice - their choice"







Offline 20Eyes

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #135 on: December 25, 2010, 07:51:44 am »
Someone suggested this was due to lack of maturity however I think it more likely to be simple ignorance. Your comments do help me to notice that which I would not have noticed.

My ignorance helps you to notice that which you would not have noticed? Interesting, what does that say about your starting point?

Dwight D Eisenhower said "The history of free man is never written by chance but by choice - their choice"

A fantastic quote - so why are you a member of a party that seeks to impose its/the States choice and decisions on every individual... because you (who are apparently not ignorant) think you know better how to run people's lives than they do.

The more I hear/read, the more I detest the Left and their insidious evil, all wrapped up in the cyncial veneer of 'caring'. How can you be a member of a party that would enslave people to state benefit dependency and reduce everything to the lowest common denominator? Man's inhumanity to man can be horrifying.
"Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime." ~ Potter Stewart

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #136 on: December 25, 2010, 07:34:54 pm »
It's open to all, of course, but the general impression I get is that it's left-leaning in the main. The left are very good at denying bias. I'm sure you've heard of the BBC  :santa_wink:

Well 20Eyes I need to tell you a story about Councillor Vera Tomlinson at the recent Moredon Bye Election - she accused me of being Labour and then said the Tories would retain the seat. 

She was wrong on both counts as I told her at the time.  Like Steve Wakefield I am very independently minded and would never be acceptable to any party machine as a consequence.  I asked Vera if she was correct about my allegiences why I had helped her leaflet in St Philips three and a half years ago?  I reminded her about our conversation about Justin's Father and his work in the domestic appliance industry, but sadly as with all these people they easily forget and then you realise you are only as useful as the last time you helped them.

As a life long Conservative (but with a considerable social conscience) I cannot believe the way the Tories are behaving both locally and nationally and so in future will support anyone who I believe will do the best for Swindon and the country as a whole.  The trouble is we have lost 'balance' in our society and until this is restored we are in for very hard and difficult time.

and after all that heavy stuff on Christmas Day may I wish everyone a very happy Christmas and may the New Year bring us better times.

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #137 on: December 25, 2010, 08:27:12 pm »
Come on, politicians, what have they done for us lately?

Is that like the Monty Python what have the Romans ever done for us?

Got an option to call on some grit
Give us free Wifi
The Central Library
New schools
selling off the Oasis
Threatened to pull down the old college several times
A canal
The big weekend
Brought the Taberbnacle stones back to Swindon
Regeneration
Forward Swindon, that was so good they (Re) named it twice
The SSEP
Thousands of new houses opposite Oakhurst
Tadpole expressway
Letting Wiltshire build houses on Swindon's border ie Freshbrook & Shaw
One Swindon
Connecting People Connecting Places

I am sure this is just the tip of the political acheivements iceberg there must be many more

You don't half talk bollocks sometimes Ringer!!

We could all live without your list and the cost to us Council Tax payers!!

Well maybe all except our Rod the Wi-fi King.

Will that go on his tombstone?

Offline Tobes

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #138 on: December 25, 2010, 11:05:17 pm »
Richard - I think you've missed Ringer's sarcastic tone....?

 :wakeup:

 :santa_afro:
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita

Offline Ringer

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Re: Thursday 13th January 2011 Will There Be A big thaw as Lib Dem Vote Melts?
« Reply #139 on: December 25, 2010, 11:43:36 pm »
You don't half talk bollocks sometimes Ringer!!
We could all live without your list and the cost to us Council Tax payers!!
Well maybe all except our Rod the Wi-fi King.
Will that go on his tombstone?

Oh dear if you think I am talking bollocks then that list must be complete and utter bollocks?  :santa_embarassed:  :santa_embarassed:  :santa_embarassed: Apologies for ticking you off  :tickedoff:

Richard - I think you've missed Ringer's sarcastic tone....?
:wakeup:
:santa_afro:

Sarcastic Moi?  :2funny: well it is Christmas afterall and the Whiskey is working overtime.

Quote
Rod the Wi-fi King.
Will that go on his tombstone?

What do you think will be his political epitaph? BTW I am watching Die Hard on TV and don't you just love it when a "Brooding Quixotic dictator" leader of a group gets sorted by a Roy Rogers? Yippee-ki-yay energiser bunny!


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