Topic: Outsourcing Adult Services to a “Social Enterprise” organisation

[20Eyes]

US Healthcare system?! What a friggin joke my little brother smacked his head on a coffee table and needed stitches, cost 149 dollars.....seriously a feckin joke.

So, that's about, what, £90 (depending on when it happened). The average UK wage earner pays c.2.5 times that much in NI each and every month, even when they don't require stitches. Who's the joke on?

If you don't have insurance and you can't afford the treatment your fecked

And there we have it... the myth that helps keeps the NHS as badly performing as it is.

[20Eyes]

All I can say is that it must be a comfort to people knowning that they will not have to pay medical bills during a period of austerity.

They are paying for their medical care. They pay for it each and every month, that hasn't stopped and that is unlikely to ever stop.

That's the other myth: the NHS is free. Not if you're a taxpayer it's not.

[moley]

I'll say it again: I'm not claiming that the US healthcare system is good, just that it's not as bad as it's portrayed over here or as bad as some people over here are led to believe.

The point I've been trying to make is that it's not good blithely saying, 'The NHS is better than what they've got in America', as if that means it's all perfectly acceptable.

Your rush to lambast the US system tends to reinforce what I'm actually saying. It shouldn't be about 'better than the worst', it should be about, 'as good as the best' - which it isn't.

I've never used the healthcare system when I've been in the States.  However I've spent more time talking about healthcare with colleagues, and the problems they have getting claims back on their (company funded) healthcare insurance + the gotchas in terms of things not covered than just about any other topic...  The impression I've come away with is that there is an absolutely massive "tax" on healthcare costs over there to support the legions of bloodthirsty parasites lawyers making a mint out of the complexity of the funding situation.  I suspect that if you manage to navigate the choppy waters of the insurance system, or are very rich, the healthcare you get is better than over here (and I do think that if you have the right insurance they do better preventative medicine than over here)  BUT if something happens like you lose your job whilst suffering from a chronic condition, you are royally screwed.

Moley

[Mellon]

Its not exactly a myth besides the joke is on the sick ill and injured

[20Eyes]

Its not exactly a myth besides the joke is on the sick ill and injured

You think the NHS is free??

[Steve Wakefield]

I have never paid an NHS bill anywhere in the UK apart from the odd prescription.

[Mellon]

I know the nhs isn't free I pay my national insurance into a big pot so everyone who needs to see a doctor gets to see a doctor.
I see a doctor when I need to, I'm very happy knowing that my money goes into helping others aswell as me.

[20Eyes]

I know the nhs isn't free I pay my national insurance into a big pot so everyone who needs to see a doctor gets to see a doctor.
I see a doctor when I need to, I'm very happy knowing that my money goes into helping others aswell as me.

So, why, when you've never paid a single penny towards the US healthcare system, did you find it a 'joke' when you were asked to pay barely £90 for a relatively time-consuming and necessary piece of healthcare - one that was presumably carried out to a satisfactory level?

[Mellon]

The stitches were done very neatly, very tidy if only they did a neater job on the seams,

My point is 20 the basis of the way the US healthcare system is run eg insurance, wallet checks etc is a total joke, perhaps you won't understand but £90 is a hell of a lot of money to me....but the bill was paid for the benefit of my brother,

[20Eyes]

My point is 20 the basis of the way the US healthcare system is run eg insurance, wallet checks etc is a total joke, perhaps you won't understand but £90 is a hell of a lot of money to me....but the bill was paid for the benefit of my brother,

And c.£250 per month NI is an awful lot of money to the average wage earner in the UK, yet they have no choice but to pay it.

I just don't understand the logic: you think it's a 'joke' to pay £90 for medical attention that was actually delivered, yet you're more than happy to pay more than that every month for medical attention that you don't receive. Just seems a little strange to me.

[Des Morgan]

the US healthcare system is run eg insurance, wallet checks etc is a total joke, perhaps you won't understand but £90 is a hell of a lot of money to me....but the bill was paid for the benefit of my brother,

Mellon - what would an American have to pay in the UK if they required stitches to a head wound?  I don't think it would be free and gratis?  Anyone advise

[Mellon]

And c.£250 per month NI is an awful lot of money to the average wage earner in the UK, yet they have no choice but to pay it.

are they not paying into a healthcare system that will benefit them some day?

just don't understand the logic: you think it's a 'joke' to pay £90 for medical attention that was actually delivered, yet you're more than happy to pay more than that every month for medical attention that you don't receive. Just seems a little strange to me.

i think you need to read what i wrote again....here ill make it easy for you

My point is 20 the basis of the way the US healthcare system is run eg insurance, wallet checks etc is a total joke, perhaps you won't understand but £90 is a hell of a lot of money to me....but the bill was paid for the benefit of my brother,

and here,  my interpretation:

US Healthcare system?! What a friggin joke my little brother smacked his head on a coffee table and needed stitches, cost 149 dollars.....seriously a feckin joke

i dont pay more then 90 quid a month into my NI, Assuming so would be wrong . and still do think the US healthcare system is a joke

the US healthcare system is run eg insurance, wallet checks etc is a total joke, perhaps you won't understand but £90 is a hell of a lot of money to me....but the bill was paid for the benefit of my brother,

Mellon - what would an American have to pay in the UK if they required stitches to a head wound?  I don't think it would be free and gratis?  Anyone advise

i dunno but they are welcome to use my NI

[moley]

NI is supposed to cover more than just the health service (e.g. pensions).

My understanding is that health-care insurance in the US can easily cost several thousand dollars a year (with many exclusions) - the cost of healthcare insurance for retirees was one of the things that sent GM into Chapter 11 bankruptcy (because healthcare insurance costs have been rising at way more than the rate of inflation).  So one of the traps is that people can become dependent on their employer for healthcare, and then when they retire (or are made redundant) if there isn't provision in their pension plan, they are in trouble.  (This was one of the things Obama's healthcare bill was attempting to address).

It's impossible to predict who will get cancer... whilst lifestyle choices may increase or reduce your likelihood of getting it (and this isn't just obesity etc. as for example spending time in the sun can increase your chances of getting it), it's still a lottery.  At least with our system, if you're one of the unlucky ones you will get treatment..

Moley

[Tobes]

I'll say it again: I'm not claiming that the US healthcare system is good, just that it's not as bad as it's portrayed over here or as bad as some people over here are led to believe.

The point I've been trying to make is that it's not good blithely saying, 'The NHS is better than what they've got in America', as if that means it's all perfectly acceptable.

Your rush to lambast the US system tends to reinforce what I'm actually saying. It shouldn't be about 'better than the worst', it should be about, 'as good as the best' - which it isn't.

No, you were claiming much more than that (or are you backtracking now?) 

- You said:

It's something we should be aiming to copy over here

And I'M saying, based upon the clear facts and the social implications...

NO IT FEKKIN ISN'T 

... and in your rush to portray everyone here who speak in favour of the NHS as some sort of 'leftie' brainwashed drone, nobody has said that the NHS doesn't have problems and issues, HAVE THEY?!