Topic: August 4 200 press rel

[Lynda]

This press release`went out this morning....

Lynda


                           
                        August 4 2006


LOCAL CAMPAIGNERS DEMAND HALT TO ID SCHEME

As the Science and Technology Committee of MPs in Westminster publish yet another damning report on the Government's ID cards programme [1], local campaigners challenge Anne Snelgrove to explain why she supported the scheme - which is being exposed as more of a shambles with every passing week - and called for it to be stopped.

MPs were "incredulous" about the cost figures proposed by the Home Office, and accused it of keeping the public in the dark about the true purpose and detail of the scheme.

Geoff Reid of NO2ID Swindon said:

"Anne Snelgrove clearly can't have had a clue what she was voting for. The Government still can't explain or provide evidence on how ID cards will solve all the problems that it has claimed they will, and it has no answer to people's fears that their personal information will be abused, spread around or even sold. Assurances about keeping the system secure are laughable in light of the appalling track record of Government IT, and all this secrecy about the mess they are in at even this early stage just shows they can't be trusted.

"The people of Swindon deserve to know just how many hospital beds, school places and public services the Government is willing to sacrifice in pursuit of ID cards and the highly intrusive database behind them. Or is it simply going to tax our identity? Anne Snelgrove should listen to common sense and expert advice rather than blindly follow her party line against the best interests of her constituents."

Phil Booth, National Coordinator of NO2ID [2] said:

"Tony Blair wants his legacy to be the lifelong tracking of law-abiding citizens, compulsory fingerprinting and routine interrogation by bureaucrats
- as if we were all suspects. When the British public find out the true extent of this 'ID card' scheme, they come out resoundingly against it.
NO2ID and its supporters demand an immediate halt to this dangerous attack on freedom and privacy."

- ENDS -

Notes for editors:

1) Science and Technology Committee’s Sixth Report 'Identity Card
Technologies: Scientific Advice, Risk and Evidence' - http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmsctech.htm

2) NO2ID is the UK-wide, non-partisan campaign against compulsory ID cards and the National Identity Register. For more info visit http://www.no2id.net

[Geoff Reid]

From: geoff reid [mailto:geoffreid@talkswindon.org]
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 1:43 PM
To: annesnelgrovemp@parliament.uk
Subject: Todays Science and Technology Committee Report


Dear Anne,

I note that the Science and Technology Committee has released its report on the Governments plans to introduce identity cards and construct the National Identity Register database.

As the report is receiving huge media coverage, perhaps now would be the ideal time for you to explain fully why you have, until now, unreservedly supported the Identity Cards Act 2006 and the construction of the National Identity Register.

Perhaps the report will cause you to re-think your position regarding both the Identity Cards Act and the NIR database.

The people of Swindon deserve a full account of your past, present and future position regarding identity cards and the NIR, and in this instance, where the freedoms of each and every Swindon resident are under threat, I feel we are actually entitled to demand it of you.

As the Parliamentary summer recess has begun, I trust you will find a few minutes to visit this topic on the Talkswindon forum and post your reply.

http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=668.0

Regards

Geoff Reid






 

[ZPW]

local campaigners challenge Anne Snelgrove to explain why she supported the scheme

Why are you lot zeroing in on Ms Snelgrove?
Michael Wills also voted with the govt on this scheme.
Why is his name not up in lights?

this is tantamount to Snel-baiting .

[Geoff Reid]

You're absolutely right of course....

...never let it be said that we are discriminatory here.

From: geoff reid [mailto:geoffreid@talkswindon.org]
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 7:56 PM
To: 'michaelwillsmp@parliament.uk'
Subject: Todays Science and Technology Committee Report




Dear  Mr Wills ,
I note that the Science and Technology Committee has released its report on the Governments plans to introduce identity cards and construct the National Identity Register database.

As the report is receiving huge media coverage, perhaps now would be the ideal time for you to explain fully why you have, until now, unreservedly supported the Identity Cards Act 2006 and the construction of the National Identity Register.

Perhaps the report will cause you to re-think your position regarding both the Identity Cards Act and the NIR database.

The people of Swindon deserve a full account of your past, present and future position regarding identity cards and the NIR, and in this instance, where the freedoms of each and every Swindon resident are under threat, I feel we are actually entitled to demand it of you.

As the Parliamentary summer recess has begun, I trust you will find a few minutes to visit this topic on the Talkswindon forum and post your reply.

http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=668.0

Regards

Geoff Reid

[Simon]

Why are you lot zeroing in on Ms Snelgrove?
Michael Wills also voted with the govt on this scheme.
Why is his name not up in lights?

True, although he hasn't been as publicly vocal in his support as she has. I suspect he is rather more politically savvy than that.

I think Anne Snelgrove got our attention mainly because of the way she refused to listen to reason when her constituents wrote to her, and in some cases was curt to the point of rudeness in her responses. And of course that terrible blooper she made last year, claiming no-one had written to her opposing the NIR when a number of people clearly had.

Come to think of it, I haven't seen any correspondence between Mr Wills and his constituents on the subject. Unfortunately I'm in the wrong constituency and rather suspect if I wrote to him he'd just refer me to Anne Snelgrove. But there must be some North Swindoners out there who wrote to him about this whilst Geoff and I and others were bashing out our letters to Annie.

Any North Swindoners care to step up and publish their correspondence with him, like we did with our correspondence with Anne Snelgrove?

Well done Geoff for inviting him to comment here, although sadly I suspect that

a) if you didn't include your postal address on the original e-mail, one of his assistants will just write back asking for your postal address so that they can confirm that you're a constituent of his.
b) if you included your postal address, or once you've supplied it in response to the request I've predicted in (a), he will merely point out that he's not your MP, and suggest that you write to Anne Snelgrove instead.

But of course I would be happy to be proved wrong...

Michael Wills, are you there.....?

[ZPW]

Okay...ish

I think you may yet be surpised by Anne.
She was new when first tested on the ID card deal. She voted the party line.
I don't think everyone will have pored over the detail of the act like you all. ( and me as it happens). I'm certain that it will have her attention these days.

Let's see what she has to say. Let's see.

[Geoff Reid]

Well done Geoff for inviting him to comment here, although sadly I suspect that

a) if you didn't include your postal address on the original e-mail, one of his assistants will just write back asking for your postal address so that they can confirm that you're a constituent of his.
b) if you included your postal address, or once you've supplied it in response to the request I've predicted in (a), he will merely point out that he's not your MP, and suggest that you write to Anne Snelgrove instead.

But of course I would be happy to be proved wrong...

Michael Wills, are you there.....?

You're quite right Simon although I'm well aware Michael could legitimately trot out the non-constituent excuse......

.......although judging by the glowing testimonials his supporters give him, and considering that the joint issues of identity cards & the national identity register affect every British subject resident in the United Kingdom....

....I'd expect better of him 

However, we have several north Swindon members, I'm sure one of them would forward an identical question to Michael.
 

[Geoff Reid]

Todays Advertiser

www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk

ID cards claim is rejected

SWINDON civil liberty group No2IO has challenged Anne Snelgrove to explain her support for identity cards.
A Westminster committee report has questioned how much the identity cards will cost, so the group has asked the South Swindon Labour MP to justify her decision.

Geoff Reid, of NO2ID Swindon, said: "Anne Snelgrove clearly can't have had a clue what she was voting for.
"The Government still can't explain or provide evidence on how ID cards will solve all the problems that it has claimed they will, and it has no answer to people's fears that their personal information will be abused, spread
around or even sold."

Mrs Snelgrove, pictured, strongly rejected the group's claim.
She said: "This was a commitment from our manifesto.
"International terrorism does not respect civil liberties. What I want is the maximum protection and security of identity for residents of Swindon."



In February MPs in the House of Commons voted in favour of compulsory ID cards, rejecting a House of Lords amendment to make the card voluntary.

Joint "biometric" passport and ID cards are likely to cost about £93, although cut-price stand-alone ID cards will be available for £30.

Hmmmm, still no full explanation but perhaps the Advertiser wasn't able to publish Annes quotes in their fullness.

Or perhaps Anne was as brusque with the Advertisers reporters as she has proven herself to be with her constituents whose opinions differ with hers over the issue.

Maybe Annes brusqueness is a smokescreen, behind which she is keeping her personal opinion well hidden.

Only Anne knows.....and thusfar she's kept quiet, apart from trotting out the party line, which is becoming more frayed and discredited by the day.....

Come on Anne, tell us what you really think about:

• The semantics of the term 'Voluntary', as used in the Labour Party Manifesto 2005

• 'Creeping Compulsion': Why the Identity Cards Act, like almost every new 'security' act brought in by your government, transfers more power to the state, while removing more rights from the individual

• 'Feature Creep', and how government plans for Identity Cards and the National Identity Register become more expansive, more expensive and more intrusive each week

Anne: You say:

"This was a commitment from our manifesto.

Do you believe that the commitment is a valid and neccessary one ?, if so, why ? 


Then you say:

"International terrorism does not respect civil liberties.

Hmmmm, this opens up debate in several different theatres of discussion, but one way to partially negate the cause of international terrorism is to stop your government from provoking it in the first place with a foreign policy which appears to be particularly beligerent towards the Middle East.

Also, condoning and actively assisting rendition flights and operations, under the banner of 'National Security and anti-terrorist operations' is a massive betrayal of 'British' values and illustrates perfectly the hypocrisy with which your government soils our values, whilst Tony Blair is simultaneously and breathlessy informing the Americans that the 'war on terror' is all about showing our values to be bigger and better than anyone elses.....

And:

What I want is the maximum protection and security of identity for residents of Swindon."

But I am a resident of Swindon and I am quite content that by exercising vigilance, and a small amount of normal, everday caution I will keep my identity as secure as it ever has been.

I do not want the state to take charge, (and charge is the keyword here), of my identity, it's mine.

I feel at a significantly lower risk of being blown apart by a terrorist bomb now than I ever did when the IRA campaign was in full swing.....(and let's not forget that Tony Blair is responsible for releasing many convicted IRA murderers, bombers and assassins, who are now walking the streets again as free men...who says terrorism doesn't pay, eh?).

In any event, there is a determined campaign being prosecuted by your government which continually exaggerates the risk of international terrorism occuring on British soil.... it's transparent marketing....whipping up the perceived need for a particular product....which they can then 'conveniently' supply at an opportune moment.  ;)


Anne, you said:

What I want.......

What about what I want ?.

What about what everyone else wants ?. 





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[ZPW]

Ms Snelgrove's response to the press item is a bit dissappointing it has to be said.
However....
You have to give her credit for getting the adver to use a different photo from file.
pashmina? Gone!
Took a while, but eventually the penny dropped and rolled all the way through to the 'chink-chink' tray.

remember the battle of the pink pashmina as you bear arms in the name of the ID card scheme. If you keep at it, really... she'll get it.

Anne.... I am really doing my best for you here. pitch in sweetie, i really need you to see the databank light.

[karen leakey]

Refer to link below

Brown to let shops share ID card data:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1838315,00.html

[Jarvis]

Thanks for the Observer link Karen 

I used to think the NO2ID lot were a bunch of bearded sandal-wearing liberals, but every time I read reports like todays Observer I'm further convinced that the claims made by NO2ID are completely correct and not exaggerated at all.....even though the government has consistantly denied each and every one of them 

Gordon Browns admission seems to confirm that the government has been trying to keep the public in the dark about the extent of it's intentions for Identity Cards and the National Identity Register.

The Labour party 2005 manifesto made no mention of it's intention to label, neatly package and make your identity available for sale by the state.

There was an ambiguously elastic promise of 'voluntary' introduction of identity cards, so elastic and so ambiguous in fact, that the actuality of 'voluntary' introduction is merely compulsion re-branded by Labour spindoctors.

If political Parties, and government, were bound by the same rules governing how, why and when information is released.....there would be an awful lot of politicians standing in front of High Court Judges overnight.

How can you tell when a Labour Minister is lying about identity cards and the NIR ?   

Their lips are moving. 

[Alligator]

When you consider Brown's comments and Bliar's comments on this thread http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=661.0, it reminds me why I have come to despise the labour party, Tony Bliar and Anne Snelgrove so much.   

I would say that I'm looking forward to the general election when we can hope that we may get a half decent government.  My only concern is that, as much as the tories claim that they don't support ID cards and the NIR, I just don't know if I should truly believe them to mean what they say and not just see it as a vote winner, which they can later blame on their predecessors.

I think the best outcome at the next election may be a hung parliament where the smaller parties hold more power, that may make Tony/Gordon and Dave sit up and listen.

[Tobes]

This was a commitment from our manifesto

Top up fees, Annie? Any pangs?
Wassat?
- in case you're having trouble with selective vision and the old bi-focals. I'll type it again:

TOP UP FEES

... do I remember a certain 'manifesto committement' on them too? If you're going to hide behind a trite excuse, at least pick one which is morally consistent - at least you'll stand out from your Labour colleagues.

[Geoff Reid]

....Gordon Brown sticks his head above the parapet and confirms many peoples worst suspicions:

Your most intimate details, as stored on the National Identity Register, will be offered for sale by future Labour Governments.

There's no denying it now..... government ministers have, over the last few months, grudgingly admitted that your medical history will be available through the NIR, high street shops will be able to pay-to-view your details as will foreign governments and intelligence services.

The government has consistantly denied that these, 'feature creeping', facets of the scheme were ever intended.....

.....but 'U' turns have been announced on almost every aspect of the 'voluntary' scheme, each one confirming the governments intention to include some feature that was previously, and strenuously, described as being not on the menu.

Even after the House Of Commons Scientific & Technology Select Committee announce on Friday that the scheme was 'of no clear benefit' to British citizens, a source reported to be 'close to' Gordon Brown glibly announces:

'It's about people coming to accept that this is not only a necessary but desirable part of modern society over the next 10 years".

Maybe on planet Blair it's necessary and desireable, but here in the United Kingdom those justifications carry no weight.   

The Government has advanced many different reasons why they claim Identity Cards and the National Identity Register are 'necessary and desireable', and one by one, each and every one of those 'reasons' has been shown to be false, unproveable or just plain wrong.

More here: http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=675.msg3185#msg3185

[Tel Hudson]

I am afraid that Anne Snelgrove is a lost cause.  I have looked at her listings in Hansard and I have heard her speak at a public debate.  On every subject she simply trots out the party line.  However, as a resident of Penhill in North Swindon constituency I shall let you know of the results of my writing to Micheal Wills.

Geoff, I trust you will not mind if I plagiarise your letter?

[Geoff Reid]

I don't mind at all Tel, help yourself 

I'm not convinced Anne Snelgrove is a completely lost cause yet.....

She strikes me as being tenaciously, and single-mindedly loyal when it comes to the Labour party.  When she finally realises that the leaders of that same party don't feel the same loyalty towards her, she might start exercising some free will at last.

However, people like me can't afford to wait around in the, (perhaps forlorn), hope that she will come to her senses before our right to exercise freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of movement and freedom from oppressive state surveillance is completely and utterly removed by her government, with the backing of her party.

Blairism is coming to an end, Brownism is just begining.

Blair wants to exchange our liberty for security and 'modernity'.....

Brown is a 'money-man' and wants to exchange our liberty for cash.....


Both men, and anyone who assists them in this endeavour, are thieves of freedom.

[newman]

with regard to the Any Qusions debate, I thought it was typical of the poor reserach by the programms producers that they had a question about ID cards but none of the panel had any stoing views on the subject.

two in favour, and two against only becasue they think the current government would cock it up, but were in favour in principle.

there was a show of hands from the audeicne, and i would say 60% against ID cards.

[Lynda]

Interestingly, Anne's a member of the Science and Technology Committee which recent issued a damning report on the ID cards scheme. This was the report that gave rise to our press release of August 4th.



Quoted from PDF page 4 of the report:

Quote:
Current membership

Mr Phil Willis MP (Liberal Democrat, Harrogate and Knaresborough)(Chairman)
Adam Afriyie MP (Conservative, Windsor)
Mr Jim Devine MP (Labour, Livingston)
Mr Robert Flello MP (Labour, Stoke-on-Trent South)
Dr Evan Harris MP (Liberal Democrat, Oxford West & Abingdon)
Dr Brian Iddon MP (Labour, Bolton South East)
Margaret Moran MP (Labour, Luton South)
Mr Brooks Newmark MP (Conservative, Braintree)
Anne Snelgrove MP (Labour/Co-op, South Swindon)
Bob Spink MP (Conservative, Castle Point)
Dr Desmond Turner MP (Labour, Brighton Kemptown)


Totals: LibDem 2, Conservative 3, Labour 6.

However, Anne was absent at the vote on the final report - see PDF page 69:

Quote:

Thursday 20 July 2006

Members present:

Mr Phil Willis, in the Chair
Mr Adam Afriyie
Mr Brooks Newmark
Mr Robert Flello
Bob Spink
Dr Evan Harris

...

Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Report of the Committee to the House.

[Geoff Reid]

It doesn't look like Michael is going to personally grace us with his presence..... yet, but here is an email received via one of his assistants email accounts.

From: xxxxx, xxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxx@parliament.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:05 AM
To: geoffreid@talkswindon.org
Subject: From Michael Wills MP


Dear Mr Reid
 
Thank you for your email of 4 August although I was surprised by its tone.
 
I am always happy to set out my position on issues that concern my constituents, indeed I have corresponded with over 11,000 individual constituents since I was elected and have organised scores of public meetings open to all my constituents, at which I have set out my position on a vast array of issues as clearly and unambiguously as I have been able, even though that has not always accorded with the views of individual constituents.

 
Nor have I sought to hide my position on identity cards and have been happy to set it out to over 30 constituents who have written to me about this issue and I could have been happy to do so again, even if you simply asked rather than demanded it.

 
My own view is that the potential benefits to the citizen in terms of tackling identity theft, benefit fraud and abuse of public services as well as terrorism could outweigh concerns about cost. Nonetheless I will look closely at the final proposals the Government puts before the House of Commons and consider carefully the views of my constituents, especially in relation to the costs to pensioners, as I share your concerns about this. 

 
I hope this is helpful and that you will not hesitate to contact me if you would like to discuss this further.
 
Yours sincerely
 
Michael Wills
MP for North Swindon



Office of Michael Wills

MP for North Swindon

House of Commons

London

SW1A 0AA

Telephone: xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx

Fax: xxxx xxx xxxx

xxxxxx@parliament.uk

EH? 

......benefits to the citizen in terms of tackling identity theft, benefit fraud and abuse of public services as well as terrorism could outweigh concerns about cost.

Encouraging people to exercise proper vigilance in shops, banks, ports and benefit offices would be a good start....

....and it doesn't cost anything, let alone £19 billion pounds.

Making proper and diligent use of the existing systems and laws would improve the situation no end, and the publics perception of the identity theft 'problem' would be very different if the government stopped spinning it up into a whirlwind of worry.

I'm surprised Michael, (well, probably Michael), is still leaning on the 'identity cards as preventing terrorism' crutch....

...which has been kicked out from under the government every time they've leaned on it.

That crutch still doesn't support the weight of the argument the government places upon it.

I remain glad that (probably) Michael has responded, although I suspect it may have been a form letter.

 

[Geoff Reid]

I've heard many good things said about Michael Wills, particularly regarding his communication with constituents, and others.

I fall into the 'others' category, so perhaps that's why Michaels reply to me was 'Snegrovian' in it's brevity and content.

I am however, an optimist, and live in hope that Michael will, one day, join in here.....

....although that day will probably, and coincidentally be, on the runup to

next years the next general election.

From: geoff reid [mailto:geoffreid@talkswindon.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:01 PM
To: 'xxxxxx, Louise'
Subject: RE: From Michael Wills MP


Dear Michael

Thank you for your reply which is very much appreciated, I am however, sorely disappointed that you summed up your support for the Identity Cards Act 2006 and the National Identity Register in only one sentence.

I was rather hoping you would explain your position in greater detail than is possible in just 71 words. I have formed the distressing opinion that, like Anne Snelgrove, you may have:

• Not fully read and understood the Act, and cannot therefore confidently explain your position on it to the residents of Swindon.

• You have read and understood the act but worry openly discussing it might be politically damaging for you.

• Concluded that the Act is very difficult to defend and the less said about it the better.

Based on the content of your first reply, I sadly conclude that further communication with you via letter or email is unlikely to produce any meaningful engagement on your part regarding this issue.  I would, however, like to assure you that the the invitation for you to join the topical discussions held on the Talkswindon forum, is a genuine one, and remains open. I feel sure the membership would welcome you, and your views.


Kind Regards


Geoff Reid

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