Author Topic: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety  (Read 9034 times)

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Offline chrisp

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2010, 08:38:03 pm »
having now read the postings on this. has this guy had anything published in new scientist? surely if my wifi can cause nose bleeds it would be everywhere, sounds a bit cuckoo to me

Offline Mart

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2010, 08:47:59 pm »
If your plumber said that a job would take a week and after one weeks work he wanted another week what would you say?


I'd say he was one in a million and recommend him to my friends.

By the way Mellon, I am now feckin frezzing and a bit bored. You call this civilisation? I call it being French.

I think we like to make informed choices, trouble creeps in if people think they are being misinformed in the interest of a faster buck for the misinformer.

Smoke tabs, eat lard, drink beer. You know it makes sense.
Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.

Offline Outoftowner

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2010, 01:23:46 pm »
If you are feeling the cold Mart, remove your bacofoil suit, get over to Highworth and stand close to the micro-waves. (you might want to leave a bit of bacofoil on your hands and feet, like you do for a chicken before it goes in the oven.) ;D

Offline Spectre

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2010, 04:33:42 pm »
having now read the postings on this. has this guy had anything published in new scientist? surely if my wifi can cause nose bleeds it would be everywhere, sounds a bit cuckoo to me




Why denigrate the poor cuckoo, the problem with WiFi was caused by a Bluhbird ;)






I'm still watching  :angel:

Offline Chris Watts

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2010, 07:07:57 pm »
I would have thought Bluetit would be more appropriate.  :)

Offline Chav

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2010, 08:33:35 pm »
If you are feeling the cold Mart, remove your bacofoil suit, get over to Highworth and stand close to the micro-waves. (you might want to leave a bit of bacofoil on your hands and feet, like you do for a chicken before it goes in the oven.) ;D

I Wonder what Rob Magic would think of all this ???
Hmmmm maybe he did have a point after all  ;)
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2010, 06:33:52 pm »


http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/swindonletters/8459247.letter_from_Roger_Miller/

Quote
letter from Roger Miller

3:09pm Monday 18th October 2010


BARRIE Trower delivered a highly technical talk on the dangers of microwave technology and successfully translated it in layman's terms so not just the surgeons, environmental scientists and engineers present could understand but the general public could too. It brought home to me the effects that pulsed microwaves have on the human body. It seemed the general consensus was wifi was safe but when Barrie gave his talk and gave numerous accounts of real life trauma where families have lost their beloved children to Leukaemia or other Cancer related illness when they schooled or lived in close proximity to a wifi network or telecoms mast was concerning. One of many instances was the story of a girl who was the twelfth child to die from cancer within 18 months of a telecoms mast being erected near her school. This is truly harrowing. What was also concerning was the way a local councillor attempted to discredit Mr Trower’s reputation. First Mr Greenhalgh, who we later found out was a Conservative councillor, began by questioning Mr Trower's knowledge and inferring his claims were unsubstantiated.

A fair challenge you may think, however it was clear that Mr Greenhalgh was challenging an expert in the field without any evidence to substantiate his own counter claims and Mr Greenhalgh quickly demised into a mud slinging tirade and tried to confuse the proceedings stating clearly wifi is safe for all residents.

Liz Brackenbury, the organiser of the talk, retorted "What is the safe exposure level of microwave radiation (wifi) for children? The answer came back from Mr Greenhalgh after a pause who whispered "We don't know". This made all of the people at the meeting take note, how can they implement something without knowing the consequences?. A representative from Swindon Talk, unable to remain objective after storming out of the meeting then returned to join in with Cllr Greenhalgh's attempt to discredit Mr Trower and then made a statement that he believed the whole project will fail. Liz Brackenbury then asked "So why has £450,000 been spent on a failing project" to a huge round of applause and no response from Cllr Greenhalgh. A question best answered by the council leader and deputy leader as they sit on board of the Digital City along with Rikki Hunt, of STFC fame. Well Cllr Bluh?

I am so angry at the arrogance and petulance showed by Cllr Greenhalgh and the Swindon Talk representatives, they clearly had attended with their own agenda and that was not to be opened minded and have the welfare of Swindon and the residents in mind.

I sincerely hope that Mr Trower comes back to Swindon and continues to educate people in this field as the majority of people I have spoken to on the night had very little understanding of the technology and the implications on our and our childrens health.

ROGER MILLER Harrow Close Stratton St.Margaret Swindon

Interesting.

Comments?

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2010, 07:08:01 pm »
In my opinion the letter writer's clear description of events  makes it sound to someone not present that Cllr Greenhalgh, may be mistaken  for the sort of person that the locals will be out with pitchforks and burning torches hunting him down? Reminicent of a scene  like in the old Hammer House of Horrors films  ;) . Swindon Talk is that the social site? Perhaps Chris Watts would like to enlighten us all?

I do apologise, if for one moment anyone thinks that  I am making light of the issue; I am not. Furthermore I am not making light of the letter writer's opinion either. In fact I  would like to thank them for an insight into what happened. Unfortunately though I attend the meeting I was feeling unwell and had to leave the meeting not long after the speaker began his talk. I wish I had now been well enough to have stayed for the public question time as it looks like I missed something; somewhere between petulance, a whisper and a tirade? Please Chris can you fill in the blanks? I would appreciate it.

I think Liz did well to get the event staged, and thank her for that effort. It is good to see the public are further scrutinising and questioning the decision made by Health Scrutiny. I am sure that Health Scrutiny  did ask for a record of emissions levels to be taken  and kept I hope  that is also being done in schools as per this link? http://www.lever.co.uk/wifi-safety-schools-children-radiation-mobile-mast-panorama.html

All posts on this forum are my own and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Mellon

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2010, 07:56:41 pm »


http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/swindonletters/8459247.letter_from_Roger_Miller/

Quote
letter from Roger Miller

3:09pm Monday 18th October 2010


BARRIE Trower delivered a highly technical talk on the dangers of microwave technology and successfully translated it in layman's terms so not just the surgeons, environmental scientists and engineers present could understand but the general public could too. It brought home to me the effects that pulsed microwaves have on the human body. It seemed the general consensus was wifi was safe but when Barrie gave his talk and gave numerous accounts of real life trauma where families have lost their beloved children to Leukaemia or other Cancer related illness when they schooled or lived in close proximity to a wifi network or telecoms mast was concerning. One of many instances was the story of a girl who was the twelfth child to die from cancer within 18 months of a telecoms mast being erected near her school. This is truly harrowing. What was also concerning was the way a local councillor attempted to discredit Mr Trower’s reputation. First Mr Greenhalgh, who we later found out was a Conservative councillor, began by questioning Mr Trower's knowledge and inferring his claims were unsubstantiated.

A fair challenge you may think, however it was clear that Mr Greenhalgh was challenging an expert in the field without any evidence to substantiate his own counter claims and Mr Greenhalgh quickly demised into a mud slinging tirade and tried to confuse the proceedings stating clearly wifi is safe for all residents.

Liz Brackenbury, the organiser of the talk, retorted "What is the safe exposure level of microwave radiation (wifi) for children? The answer came back from Mr Greenhalgh after a pause who whispered "We don't know". This made all of the people at the meeting take note, how can they implement something without knowing the consequences?. A representative from Swindon Talk, unable to remain objective after storming out of the meeting then returned to join in with Cllr Greenhalgh's attempt to discredit Mr Trower and then made a statement that he believed the whole project will fail. Liz Brackenbury then asked "So why has £450,000 been spent on a failing project" to a huge round of applause and no response from Cllr Greenhalgh. A question best answered by the council leader and deputy leader as they sit on board of the Digital City along with Rikki Hunt, of STFC fame. Well Cllr Bluh?

I am so angry at the arrogance and petulance showed by Cllr Greenhalgh and the Swindon Talk representatives, they clearly had attended with their own agenda and that was not to be opened minded and have the welfare of Swindon and the residents in mind.

I sincerely hope that Mr Trower comes back to Swindon and continues to educate people in this field as the majority of people I have spoken to on the night had very little understanding of the technology and the implications on our and our childrens health.

ROGER MILLER Harrow Close Stratton St.Margaret Swindon

Interesting.

Comments?

1:  im in the papers.....again
2: it was an interesting letter, although my recollection of events differ slightly from Mr Miller's
3: i did not join in with Cllr Greenhalgh on his barrage of "i know considerably more then you".

4: fairplay for writing a letter, a response will be coming soon :)
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2010, 09:52:03 pm »
 
For the personal archives of Swindons many Wifi'asco enthusiasts.

Click thumbnail image for full picture



Offline Chris Watts

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2010, 10:02:38 pm »
My response also on the way. As i stated before, debate was not really welcome at the meeting by some. Makes things a little tricky for the likes of us.

Offline Tobes

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2010, 10:56:18 pm »
Hmmm...

I'm surprised this thread has run as far as this. Its one the record that I'm no supporter of WiFi - but I'd like to think the reasons are rational. As far as I can ascertain, the health 'implications' argument when it comes to objecting to W-Fi is anything but rational is anything but. I'd like to propose that its a bit expedient to adopt a supportive stance regarding the health concerns aspect of this argument, when many of us would have ridiculed and lampooned Robs stance on things of equally dubious scientific standing - ie the 'dangers' of mobile phones.

 :fence:
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Offline Mellon

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2010, 11:12:36 pm »
Hmmm...

I'm surprised this thread has run as far as this. Its one the record that I'm no supporter of WiFi - but I'd like to think the reasons are rational. As far as I can ascertain, the health 'implications' argument when it comes to objecting to W-Fi is anything but rational is anything but. I'd like to propose that its a bit expedient to adopt a supportive stance regarding the health concerns aspect of this argument, when many of us would have ridiculed and lampooned Robs stance on things of equally dubious scientific standing - ie the 'dangers' of mobile phones.

 :fence:

that was definitely an eggciting evening  ))))

oh hang on.......



havent done that for a while  ;D
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Offline Chris Watts

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2010, 12:02:37 am »
So the question is, can we trust the WHO?

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs193/en/

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2010/9789241599948_eng.pdf

If we can not trust WHO, who can we trust?

Brain tumour risk in relation to mobile telephone use: results of the INTERPHONE international case–control study
The INTERPHONE Study Group*


Accepted
8 March 2010
Methods
An interview-based case–control study with 2708 glioma and 2409 meningioma cases and matched controls was conducted in 13 countries using a common protocol.
Results
A reduced odds ratio (OR) related to ever having been a regular mobile phone user was seen for glioma [OR 0.81; 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.70–0.94] and meningioma (OR 0.79; 95% CI 0.68–0.91), possibly reflecting participation bias or other methodological limitations. No elevated OR was observed 510 years after first phone use (glioma: OR 0.98; 95% CI 0.76–1.26; meningioma: OR 0.83; 95% CI 0.61–1.14). ORs were <1.0 for all deciles of lifetime number of phone calls and nine deciles of cumulative call time. In the 10th decile of recalled cumulative call time, 51640 h, the OR was 1.40 (95% CI 1.03–1.89) for glioma, and 1.15 (95% CI0.81–1.62) for meningioma; but there are implausible values of re-ported use in this group. ORs for glioma tended to be greater in the temporal lobe than in other lobes of the brain, but the CIs around the lobe-specific estimates were wide. ORs for glioma tended to be greater in subjects who reported usual phone use on the same side of the head as their tumour than on the opposite side
Conclusions
Overall, no increase in risk of glioma or meningioma was observedwith use of mobile phones. There were suggestions of an increased risk of glioma at the highest exposure levels, but biases and error prevent a causal interpretation. The possible effects of long-term heavy use of mobile phones require further investigation.





Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2010, 10:04:33 am »

For the personal archives of Swindons many Wifi'asco enthusiasts.

Click thumbnail image for full picture




They wouldn't give any reassurances would they?  They can't otherwise they undermine their (sorry our) product.

Yes folks we are up to our necks in this project like it or not!

Whether or not it is safe is another matter and the answer to that one will not be known for years and by then it will be too late.

Incidentally does anyone have any up to date information on the success of 'our' product in Highworth and how many paying customers (the important bit) Digital City have signed up?

Offline Mellon

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2010, 10:35:29 am »


http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/swindonletters/8459247.letter_from_Roger_Miller/

Quote
letter from Roger Miller

3:09pm Monday 18th October 2010


BARRIE Trower delivered a highly technical talk on the dangers of microwave technology and successfully translated it in layman's terms so not just the surgeons, environmental scientists and engineers present could understand but the general public could too. It brought home to me the effects that pulsed microwaves have on the human body. It seemed the general consensus was wifi was safe but when Barrie gave his talk and gave numerous accounts of real life trauma where families have lost their beloved children to Leukaemia or other Cancer related illness when they schooled or lived in close proximity to a wifi network or telecoms mast was concerning. One of many instances was the story of a girl who was the twelfth child to die from cancer within 18 months of a telecoms mast being erected near her school. This is truly harrowing. What was also concerning was the way a local councillor attempted to discredit Mr Trower’s reputation. First Mr Greenhalgh, who we later found out was a Conservative councillor, began by questioning Mr Trower's knowledge and inferring his claims were unsubstantiated.

A fair challenge you may think, however it was clear that Mr Greenhalgh was challenging an expert in the field without any evidence to substantiate his own counter claims and Mr Greenhalgh quickly demised into a mud slinging tirade and tried to confuse the proceedings stating clearly wifi is safe for all residents.

Liz Brackenbury, the organiser of the talk, retorted "What is the safe exposure level of microwave radiation (wifi) for children? The answer came back from Mr Greenhalgh after a pause who whispered "We don't know". This made all of the people at the meeting take note, how can they implement something without knowing the consequences?. A representative from Swindon Talk, unable to remain objective after storming out of the meeting then returned to join in with Cllr Greenhalgh's attempt to discredit Mr Trower and then made a statement that he believed the whole project will fail. Liz Brackenbury then asked "So why has £450,000 been spent on a failing project" to a huge round of applause and no response from Cllr Greenhalgh. A question best answered by the council leader and deputy leader as they sit on board of the Digital City along with Rikki Hunt, of STFC fame. Well Cllr Bluh?

I am so angry at the arrogance and petulance showed by Cllr Greenhalgh and the Swindon Talk representatives, they clearly had attended with their own agenda and that was not to be opened minded and have the welfare of Swindon and the residents in mind.

I sincerely hope that Mr Trower comes back to Swindon and continues to educate people in this field as the majority of people I have spoken to on the night had very little understanding of the technology and the implications on our and our childrens health.

ROGER MILLER Harrow Close Stratton St.Margaret Swindon

Interesting.

Comments?


The adver published my letter  :)
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/swindonletters/8475065.Letter_from_Ben_Reid/


Quote
Letter from Ben Reid

10:05am Tuesday 26th October 2010

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IN reply to a previous letter, my name is Ben Reid, I was also at the meeting that evening. I was the representative that you mentioned had ‘stormed’ out of the meeting and then came back to allegedly ‘discredit’ Mr Barrie Trower alongside Coun Peter Greenhalgh, which did not happen. I would like to say, I am not a representative of Swindon Talk, Swindon Talk is a social meeting place for residents. I am in fact a contributor to Talk Swindon, again another social meeting place which focuses more on the political issues of Swindon.

I attended the meeting out of pure interest as the political nature of Swindon wi fi scheme has been a hot topic on Talk Swindon, I was in no way shape or form attempting to discredit Mr Trower, I merely asked for a case study to support his claims of economic downturn related to mobile network carriers. Yes I did leave the meeting for a short period of time due to Mr Trower not being able to answer my question, this was due to a moment of frustration. I did at the end of Barrie’s speech apologize to Liz and Barrie for my absence earlier on in the meeting. I did not join in with Coun Greenhalgh’s discrediting barrage, I was surprised myself to see that Coun Greenhalgh was fighting the overall opinion of the public, if you are referring to the conversation I had with Coun Greenhalgh before he regained control of the microphone, I was asking Coun Greenhalgh if the leader of the council Rod Bluh was going to resign over the failings of the wi fi scheme. I did not make a statement during the meeting saying the wi fi scheme will fail, I think you might have me confused with someone else. I do believe it will fail as it is already behind several months and didn’t meet the requirements for the second phase of the loan agreement. I extend an invitation to the writer to Talk Swindon to have a look at the wi fi scheme’s scrutiny from both sides, health concerns and political implications. Thank you Liz and family for a very interesting evening. I cannot and will not speak for Coun Greenhalgh or be in political allegiance with him, ever. Let it be known for the public record that I am not, nor have I ever been a member of the Conservative party.

BEN REID

Winchcombe Close
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Offline The Haydon

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2010, 01:13:38 pm »
There is a transcript of an interview with Barrie Trower on www.articlesthehaydon.co.uk, where he explains the dangers of WiFi for all to understand.

Offline Ringer

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2010, 01:35:04 pm »
Thanks Hayden:

From website (my bold) do you know which councillor?

WiFi in Swindon Pilgrim Centre 7th.October
Scaremongery ! This the response from a Swindon councillor at a talk about the danger of WiFi.
Barrie Trower an expert on Microwaves and WiFi explained the possible dangers, especially to children when WiFi masts
are placed in urban areas. Swindon is set to have WiFi in the near future. We all benefit from modern technology, so surely
the response to such an expert would be to listen to what he has to say and how we can incorporate WIFi minimising
the danger. Not just dismiss such an expert as scaremongering. This implies we are having WiFi so dont listen to such talk.
Surely now research and discussion is the answer. Before it is too late! Not just steamroller on and put profit before  health
under the umbrella of a modern need. But then does any council ever listen to the public they serve ?
Your thoughts please...  http://www.articlesthehaydon.co.uk/page-8
To qualify for inclusion there is only one rule - something described must have been said to have happened. `If the facts don`t fit the legend, print

 

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