Author Topic: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety  (Read 9008 times)

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Offline Geoff Reid

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8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« on: October 08, 2010, 05:30:10 pm »
Organised by Liz Brackenbury  (Regular Adver columnist)

Swindon Campaign Against Wi Fi

8th October  19:30 - 21:30

The Pilgrim Centre,Regent Circus, Swindon. SN1 1PX (near the Savoy Pub)
   


A FREE event. Children welcome.

Liz Brackenbury says:

"Barrie Trower, independent scientist, research physicist, author of the TETRA report, and global speaker of the dangers of WiFi is coming to Swindon! He'll PROVE without doubt that the residents of swindon's health is at risk once Digital City Uk goes live with its implemnation of 1400 mini masts that will bathe our town in electro magnetic radiation 24/7.

He has studied the effects of microwave radiation since the 60's and will be bringing documented and published proof of how it will affect pregnant women, our babies and infants, our school children and the illnesses he predicts will wash through Swindon residents if Digital City UK aren t stopped. He will tell us what our legal rights are to do this. For the sake of our town please come and hear what he s got to say. The consequences could be very grave indeed if you don t. Please tell everyone you know and bring them along! Looking forward to seeing you there. Liz x

The Adver published a web chat between Liz and Barrie, in which Barrie throws a gauntlet down to Swindons Councillors and Mp's:   

Quote from: Barrie Trower
Barrie: What I’d like to say to Swindon is get me in front of your councillors and local MP s. Get me down to Swindon and invite the public and the press and media to be there to be there so they can hear what I’ve got to say. . Invite people from the oncology department, cancer specialists, headteachers, governors, principals, members of the public. Get me down to Swindon and I will prove why this is cannot happen in Swindon.



 

Offline Rochelle

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2010, 05:37:15 pm »
Please offer my apologies for non attendance, if you can. I had every intention of going along, but I really am in poor health and just can't manage another evening out.
I am hoping for the information gathered by those who do go to be widely available asap!

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2010, 05:39:55 pm »
 

Talkswindon has a couple of members on tonights guest list, (Liz is hoping for a packed meeting), so we ought to hear a bit more later.

I'm interested to hear how the health angle discussion pans out.  As with every other aspect of the WiFi'asco, there were serious flaws with SBC's Health-Scrutiny component.

I think Liz and her campaign team would be better to focus slightly more on the process than the science, but I welcome her efforts to invigorate the health discussion anyway because SBC's 'discussion' was very poor.   

Offline Drone

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 05:59:02 pm »
I hear the WI-Fi signal might be amplified by lay-lines and astral allignment. You have been warned...
derp derp herp herp derp

Offline Mellon

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2010, 11:44:15 pm »
Just got home......Chris Watts, Mr Symonds any comments? ;D
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the world together."

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2010, 12:08:58 am »
Yes Ben it was a very interesting evening especially with your mate Betsy turning up!!

Peter Greenhalgh announced himself in a private capacity and got straight into the technical stuff which immediately lost me.  His long speech annoyed some people in the audience and then Jenni Miles outed him as a councillor which turned up the heat even further.  PG seems to revel in these circumstances and managed to hold his own.

Interesting that he hung around afterwards and talked to us all.  He told us he often disagrees with the Leader, in fact has had more arguments with him than any other Councillor, but did so in private.  Ben and I told him he should share them with the public at large to avoid the impression that everything was fixed behind closed doors.  He disagreed.

Off to bed now so will revert to this in the morning.


Offline Chris Watts

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2010, 01:34:57 am »
It was an interesting meeting to say the least. Barrie Trower introduced himself as an ex MOD scientist / researcher who was involved in a project to use microwaves as a weapon. He suggested that such a weapon would render the victim lethargic after continued exposure for a long period of time. Apparently this was used on foreign embassies in the 60s and 70s. He also did a spot of interrogation of captured Russian intelligent officers. He is an independent scientist, research physicist and is current doing the rounds. He does not possess a mobile phone or computer, therefore practices what he preaches, which is commendable.

before we get into the detail I though that I would pass on these warnings from Mr Trower.

1. If your children are using social networking sites be aware that it is highly likely that all the conversation are being monitored and stored by dark elements to be used for purposes of blackmail in the future.

2. Even if your phone is switched off, your movements can still be monitored and if you were to have an illicit affair, this would also be noted by these dark forces (Not sure if it is government or underworld) to be used against you in order to blackmail you into doing their bidding.

You have been warned.

Now for the detail. To be honest, if you are interested, i would suggest that read the information for yourself. Although Mr Trower does not have a computer, a sympathiser has posted his dissertation that he had previously presented in person to the queen of an African country. (sorry, I forgot which one.). There is reference to many scientific papers, court cases and actions in progress. Of particular note was the Italian High Court finding in favour of a plaintiff that allegedly contracted a brain tumour from a DEC phone. Also that Germany and France are removing WiFi mesh equipment from their cities.

When it came to question time, Cllr PeterG was the first to stand up to the mark. He had been furiously taking notes and started to question the research that had been quoted. The funny bit was (Peter, I am sure you will see the irony in this) part the way through he was asked if he could get to the question that he wished to pose. The crowd got quite hostile and he was publicly outed by Jenni Miles (green party) as a Councillor and as someone that sat on the health and safety committee for WiFi. PeterG declared that he was a Councillor but, in fact, did not sit of the H&S committee meeting. Peter continued discussing the papers that had been presented before he was heckled again by several members of the audience. Later in the proceedings, PeterG tried to open the discussion at a more technical level, but his card had been marked and minds had been closed.

Ben Reid tackled Mr Trower on his claim that WiFi will decimate the bee population, causing our crops to fail, therefore food prices will rise as we will need to import more, increasing our carbon footprint and ultimately leading us to bankruptcy. Ben challenged Mr Tower to provide evidence in the form of a case study. Mr Trower stated that the evidence was in the paper that he held. Ben asked as to the location of this event to which he referred and Mr Trower stated that it had not occurred but the effect are clearly documented. Ben suggested that it was just a theory and not fact at which point Mr Trower waved the paper and said the evidence was documented. As you can imagine this went back and forth with Mr Trower being increasingly obtuse before Ben realised it was a lost cause.

I explained that I had been fighting against the wifi for different reasons. I tried to instill a note of caution in the meeting, not to take everything that was said tonight as gospel.  I pointed to the millennium bug as an example of scaremongering that, in reality, turned out to be the biggest con in history, using fear as a method for unscrupulous profiteering. The MMR scam was another example of mass hysteria that was extremely profitable for a few individuals. (I am not suggesting that Mr Trower would fall into this category but without doubt, there are those who would profit from our fears.) I suggested that we have already partaken in 20 years of field trial (un-voluntarily) and that surely it would be easy to correlate the number of cancer victims over this period compared to the number of mobile and wireless devises available, mobile phones being much more powerful than wifi access points. I was then accused of being gullible by members of the audience in that I would believe any figures that the government would supply and that corporation hold the real power.

Liz, my message to you is that your cause and concerns are just and your intentions are noble and you must continue until you are satisfied. WiFi, although topical, is the least of your worries if in fact the claims made by Mr Trower have any basis. I would caution as to who you ally with as you may be in danger of losing credibility very quickly. Mr Trower may have had some valid points, but for me they were obfuscated in the bizarre. I genuinely wish you the best of luck. 

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2010, 12:39:47 pm »
Chris I envy your ability to absorb all this detail and report it in a concise and interesting way.

Some additional information:

Barrie Trower talked about the Kings of Botswana and details of his lectures and studies are on magdahavas.com scroll down to wi-fi & max.  This website contains a mountain of additional information from other sources as well.

I know Chris had some reservations at what he heard and am grateful to him for reporting what was said.  With a horrendous family history of Breast Cancer I was particularly concerned about Barrie's comment about the effect on Women with mobile phones, even turned off, in shoulder bags iradiating breast tissue via the wires in their bras. 

I was worried about his comments about Children brains not maturing until they were twenty and the effects of mobile phones microwaving them and that subsequently damaged brain cells in phoetus' could be passed down the generations through the female line.

I hope others will come on here and say what they think about how all these microwaves in the atmosphere can be damaging future generations and what perspective they have on this lecture.

A very interesting evening and very thought provoking the more so as Councillor Greenhalgh was asked to go back to Council and request a borough wide referendum on Wi-fi.  Somehow I don't think he will as he was part of the orignial process to introduce it!!


Offline Mellon

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2010, 01:08:25 pm »
Chris I envy your ability to absorb all this detail and report it in a concise and interesting way.

Some additional information:

Barrie Trower talked about the Kings of Botswana and details of his lectures and studies are on magdahavas.com scroll down to wi-fi & max.  This website contains a mountain of additional information from other sources as well.

I know Chris had some reservations at what he heard and am grateful to him for reporting what was said.  With a horrendous family history of Breast Cancer I was particularly concerned about Barrie's comment about the effect on Women with mobile phones, even turned off, in shoulder bags iradiating breast tissue via the wires in their bras. 

I was worried about his comments about Children brains not maturing until they were twenty and the effects of mobile phones microwaving them and that subsequently damaged brain cells in phoetus' could be passed down the generations through the female line.

I hope others will come on here and say what they think about how all these microwaves in the atmosphere can be damaging future generations and what perspective they have on this lecture.

A very interesting evening and very thought provoking the more so as Councillor Greenhalgh was asked to go back to Council and request a borough wide referendum on Wi-fi.  Somehow I don't think he will as he was part of the orignial process to introduce it!!



after the meeting was over and we were all mingling outside, i challenged Mr Greenhalgh on:

The Councils Behavior

The leaders resignation

what Cllr Greenhalgh had done recently - Reverted to speed cameras

The pissoire

Why he doesnt challenge the leader himself over certain issues - he said he does, which went onto the failings of labours leader and i suggested he defected to labour to become effective opposition. his response was pretty normal. I stated that the labour leader was in the tory tent and there was no reply

The Mallinson Gate

he also suggested i join a party..........um no

He was also invited to talkswindon, but promptly refused by saying "i dont like it" i asked why and he said "i dont think its right that people attack where i go on holiday" , soon after this while he was talking to a street team he was giving an example of people writing horrible things about him an fellows , i interrupted by stating i was one of them. i think it pissed him off but it raised a laugh from the street guys


Ben Reid tackled Mr Trower on his claim that WiFi will decimate the bee population, causing our crops to fail, therefore food prices will rise as we will need to import more, increasing our carbon footprint and ultimately leading us to bankruptcy. Ben challenged Mr Tower to provide evidence in the form of a case study. Mr Trower stated that the evidence was in the paper that he held. Ben asked as to the location of this event to which he referred and Mr Trower stated that it had not occurred but the effect are clearly documented. Ben suggested that it was just a theory and not fact at which point Mr Trower waved the paper and said the evidence was documented. As you can imagine this went back and forth with Mr Trower being increasingly obtuse before Ben realised it was a lost cause.


The only thing i  can relate to his theory was a small valley in china where the bees left and never come back, no ones sure why but now they hand pollinate every flower.

the most annoying thing about the evening was that he didnt give dates, paper numbers, case studies, examples and what threw me was when he went on about spies..........oh dear..........

but after sleeping on it........my phone didnt try to kill me in my sleep, my pc didnt try to kill me and i dont feel cooked in anyway.

chris be careful even if you take the battery out of your phone.......you can still be located with it
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Offline Chris Watts

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2010, 02:57:37 pm »
Chris I envy your ability to absorb all this detail and report it in a concise and interesting way.

Thanks Richard, I just wish i could spell betterer with proper gramar!

Seriously though, I do not want to devalue Liz's work on this. While there is uncertainty, there should be people applying pressure in the right places to get answers. She is doing a great job.

Unfortunately, I have my doubts about the credibility of Mr Trower, judged on last night's talk. If Liz wishes to campaign on the evidence collected by Mr Trower, I would strongly suggest that she (or one of her fellow campaigners) conducts her own "forensic investigation" into this information. If it was me, I would have checked the author's credentials, contacted all the universities, checked the credibility of the Universities or organisation and checked the credibility of the peers who countersigned the studies. Remember, we have all had emails offering an instant university degree through the post at a cost. I would also look for conflicting studies to the same detail, with an open mind. Only then would I consider allowing him to become part of a campaign. It may take several months, but it safeguards the credibility of the campaign. But that just the way I like to work. I am not a very trusting soul I am afraid to say.

Last night I tried to instill caution without referring to the more bizarre claims that Mr Trower made. At different times, I was accused of being 
in league with the council, being a plant from the telecoms industry or a closed minded drone (no offence Drone) that believed everything the government told me. I heard one attendee personally insult PeterG, although I think his shoulders are broad enough to cope.

In short, the debate was not welcomed if it contradicted the speaker
Sounds a bit like SBC.





Offline Outoftowner

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2010, 03:24:00 pm »
Geoff said:
Quote
I think Liz and her campaign team would be better to focus slightly more on the process than the science, but I welcome her efforts to invigorate the health discussion anyway because SBC's 'discussion' was very poor. 

For me, as a technical person, I have no problem with the science. (I firmly believe that mobile phones and domestic WiFi systems do not emit enough power to harm anyone.)

Geoff is correct, focus on what checks SBC did or didn't do before they gave the go-ahead to the Wi-Fi scheme. i.e. have they put any limit on the power that a Wi-Fi transmitter, erected in the borough, can produce? Have they put a limit on how close a wi-Fi transmitter can be, in line of transmission sight to a residential property? Have they checked anything? If they asked Rikki, would he know or understand anything?

Offline Mellon

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2010, 03:25:11 pm »
Chris I envy your ability to absorb all this detail and report it in a concise and interesting way.

Thanks Richard, I just wish i could spell betterer with proper gramar!

Seriously though, I do not want to devalue Liz's work on this. While there is uncertainty, there should be people applying pressure in the right places to get answers. She is doing a great job.

Unfortunately, I have my doubts about the credibility of Mr Trower, judged on last night's talk. If Liz wishes to campaign on the evidence collected by Mr Trower, I would strongly suggest that she (or one of her fellow campaigners) conducts her own "forensic investigation" into this information. If it was me, I would have checked the author's credentials, contacted all the universities, checked the credibility of the Universities or organisation and checked the credibility of the peers who countersigned the studies. Remember, we have all had emails offering an instant university degree through the post at a cost. I would also look for conflicting studies to the same detail, with an open mind. Only then would I consider allowing him to become part of a campaign. It may take several months, but it safeguards the credibility of the campaign. But that just the way I like to work. I am not a very trusting soul I am afraid to say.

Last night I tried to instill caution without referring to the more bizarre claims that Mr Trower made. At different times, I was accused of being 
in league with the council, being a plant from the telecoms industry or a closed minded drone (no offence Drone) that believed everything the government told me. I heard one attendee personally insult PeterG, although I think his shoulders are broad enough to cope.

In short, the debate was not welcomed if it contradicted the speaker
Sounds a bit like SBC.






i dont think Mr Trower fully understood your point on conspiracy
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Offline Drone

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2010, 06:33:20 am »
Quote
Did you know that it has been scientifically proven that harmful man-made electro-frequencies can damage your DNA and seriously weaken your immune system?
 

BEWARE: Do you or your children use a cell phone or wireless device at home, work or school? Most people do these days...
 

GOOD NEWS! The Power-Pendant instantly "amps up" your bio-field to protect you from harmful EMR (Electro-Magnetic Radiation) from cell phone signals, cell towers and the invisible electro-pollution all around us that constantly invades our bodies; even in our sleep, 24/7.

I feel depression, anxiety and itchy eyes and the Wi-Fi net hasn't even reached Swindon yet. If only there was some magical items of jewellery that could protect me?

Wait!

http://power-pendant.com/

From the Cherie Blair school of scientific research, no doubt.
derp derp herp herp derp

Offline kohima

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2010, 07:46:37 am »
do you realise that it has been scientifically proven that cars, smoking,booze, can kill you, so whats the big deal about wifi!! :tickedoff:

Offline Tea Boy

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 07:56:32 am »
do you realise that it has been scientifically proven that cars, smoking,booze, can kill you, so whats the big deal about wifi!! :tickedoff:

If you open your eyes, and keep away from these they won't kill you. You have a choice.

Wi fi = invisible, you have NO choice, wi-fi from your neighbours or one of Rikki's lamp posts can be permeating your house, irradiating you while you sleep, eat , watch TV etc and you will never know

Invisible things kill as effectively as the visible, except with visible hazards YOU can see it's there and can do something about it.......

Gardening tips: Always remember its brown side down, green side up.  If its knocking now it'll only go bang later

Offline Muggins

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2010, 10:08:35 am »
You could say that about Car exhausts too, Tea Boy.
Lifes not always fair. Sometimes you can get a splinter even sliding down a rainbow. - Cherralea Morgen

Offline Bogomil

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2010, 02:17:11 pm »
http://www.rense.com/general30/study.htm

This makes interesting reading…. And the biggest joke of all was that the first Ecco Houses built over at Abbey Meads were directly UNDER these type of power cables.   :o  :-\   :(  >:(

Offline Muggins

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2010, 02:19:44 pm »
Not directly under the power lines but 15 ft away, but still under the swing of the wires in the wind.  Remember all that smell of rubber when I was shown around them wonder if that points to any answers to the pylon potential?
Lifes not always fair. Sometimes you can get a splinter even sliding down a rainbow. - Cherralea Morgen

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2010, 03:09:24 pm »
 
do you realise that it has been scientifically proven that cars, smoking,booze, can kill you, so whats the big deal about wifi!! :tickedoff:

I suppose, given that you can choose not to get into or drive a car, can choose not to smoke or drink, but were not given the choice by Councillor Bluh whether you wanted to be bathed in the constant glow of Rikki's wifi, there is the small matter of consent to consider.

Personally I'm more worried that Rikki's wifi will interfere with my home wifi, playstation, mobile phones etc, than I am concerned it will boil my brains.....but I am pissed off that I wasn't asked whether I consented or not.

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: 8th October 2010: Public Meeting To Discuss WiFi Safety
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2010, 04:01:47 pm »
On of the things that Barrie Trower claimed from his knowledge of the security industry was that the Russians microwaved the American Embassy in Moscow and the staff became lethargic and ill.  It wasn't until they completely changed the staff three times in three years they became aware of this 'attack'.

The point being made here was that you would be unaware of the effects until they actually affected you.  This applied to his argument about mobile phones as well.

Having attended a natural health event in Cornwall some eight or nine years ago when it was clearly demonstrated that the use mobile phones can be identified on metering equipment I am already aware of possible dangers.  This particular lecturer in Cornwall also made the statement that ALL MICROVAVES are unsafe and leak and so whenever one is use I leave the room.

At the end of the day it is up to the individual to decide but it is better to make an informed decision than without.

 

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