Author Topic: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers  (Read 1121 times)

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Offline Fido

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Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
15 July 2010, 2:00 am

To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills

(1)  how many apprenticeships were taken up by people aged between 30 and 50 years in each of the last five years;

(2)  what target he has set for the number of apprenticeships to be taken up by people aged between 30 and 50 years in each of the next five years.

Source: Justin Tomlinson's recent appearances (TheyWorkForYou)


Offline Mart

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2010, 07:43:54 pm »
Bollocks
Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.

Offline kohima

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2010, 11:05:07 pm »
Did you see the quote from the chairman of BT, who said that due to pressure from the then Labour Government, his company arranged for a total of 26,000 apprenticeships, and in due course received the application forms.  They then threw out about 6,000 applicants, who either couldnt spell, write, add up or even compose a sentence... :2funny:

Offline Muggins

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 08:22:12 am »
I can see th point you are making but if you read that in the daily mail the chances are it was wrong anyway. 

But note the 26,000 apprenticeships being available under Labour.  Though no doubt that figure, if it's from the Daily Mail is also incorrect.

Still the fact that ONE apprenticeship was available would have been news worthy.   I beleive that goverment was subsidising the firms to provide them - that'll have been cut in the last month!
Lifes not always fair. Sometimes you can get a splinter even sliding down a rainbow. - Cherralea Morgen

Offline Bogomil

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 02:15:25 pm »
Muggins, I can’t believe a community activist, with all your years of experience, was taken in by Labour’s spin on “apprenticeships”.
In true Labour fashion (and like the spin of “Project 2000” for training nurses) these modern apprenticeships aren’t worth the paper they are written on and no employer would employ someone who had all the theory but lacked the real hands on experience that the longer and more traditional indentured apprenticeships delivered.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 05:36:24 pm »
How can I say this,  at least they took the time to 'spin' on it!  I attended meetings in Swindon and beyond, meetings which were actually intended and to all intents and purposes meant to consult with us common people.

I remember people asking, in response to what do we need to do about youth jobs etc.  for apprenticeships to be brought back, for firms to 'made' to provide that sort of training etc.  On and off in between then and now, the idea was raised again and again.  I also know that money/perks had been made available through some government fund or other, for the encouragment of the same.  How employers chose to twist the fund and misuse it I can only imagine.   If we ever get one of those down the pub get togethers perhpas I can give examples of how a few funds meant for one thing, in my opinion didn't get spent entirely in the right way.

I think that possibly that the apprentice thing it had not been available long enough for it to bite, or information to seep down before this new government took charge.

I also know that some things were not 'spin' at all, that they did listen and they did try to make a difference - just look at the Anti Social behaviour thing, it may still be happening, but things happen a lot sooner now.  I wish some of you had been sat on my shoulder and could see how this happened, via consultation.  It used to take ten days or more to move on travellers, this week it took less than that in hours.

I think sometimes that the consultation and the effort to please people in a constantly changing thing sometimes had an adverse effect.

Only time and hindsight will tell.

ps I think that that figure of 26,000 was not Labour spin but maybe the Daily Mail spin.


Lifes not always fair. Sometimes you can get a splinter even sliding down a rainbow. - Cherralea Morgen

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2010, 03:59:14 pm »
Did you see the quote from the chairman of BT, who said that due to pressure from the then Labour Government, his company arranged for a total of 26,000 apprenticeships, and in due course received the application forms.  They then threw out about 6,000 applicants, who either couldnt spell, write, add up or even compose a sentence... :2funny:

Yes Kohima Buildings are a very important educational tool - quality teachers, syllabus' and good discipline do not count!

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2010, 04:07:57 pm »
and everyone who wants to learn the validity of Labour's policy on Six Month Apprenticeships should have attended the lecture given by Pete Waterman to the old Railway employees last December.

Six months get them off the unemployment figures, they cost their employers money for twelve months and start to cover their costs after eighteen. 

Validate youth find out what they are good at and enjoy.  One usually goes with the other.  Take that interest and develop it because everyone single man woman and child on this planet is very good at doing something.

Our education system fails people and even in some cases over educates them for what they need to do to earn a living and become a valued member of society.

We need trades people now anyone tried to get a plumber or builder at a reasonable cost?

and meanwhile we have people who have no hope and graduates who cannot get work. 

Something is very wrong somwhere.

Offline Justin Tomlinson

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2010, 06:05:56 pm »
Richard is right.

I am keen to see more done to support adult re-training and vocational training for the very reasons he has mentioned.

A huge emphasis is placed on the HE, but actually there are many more areas of education that need attention.

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 08:51:39 am »
Good to see you back on here Justin.

Do you remember when 'two brains' David Willets came to town in 2008?  I spoke to him on this very subject and his eyes just glazed over and the one way conversation ended!

Isn't he some sort of Government Education Minister these days in which case good luck because he obviously doesn't subscribe to my viewpoint?

Offline Mart

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 08:06:55 pm »
Do you think that there was a shift to more ethereal careers at the expense of careers where the results of your labour were more obvious.

I wonder iif this shift was as a result of, cause of, or just part of the perceived diminishing of the British manufacturing industry.

I shifted from an apprenticeship and trade to a more sort of 'Well, what did I make today?' type job.

I think we shifted from doing jobs that produced a material result, with a beginning and an end, to doing jobs that consisted of meeting the needs of people who wanted to spend money from doing jobs, making people feel better after doing their jobs, doing jobs that told people how to do their jobs healthily and safely, doing jobs that told people how to do their jobs with less people and then doing jobs that sold peoples' jobs.

Consequently I have learned how to plumb and wire a bit.
Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river.

Offline Simon

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 08:48:12 pm »
Do you think that there was a shift to more ethereal careers at the expense of careers where the results of your labour were more obvious.

I wonder iif this shift was as a result of, cause of, or just part of the perceived diminishing of the British manufacturing industry.

I shifted from an apprenticeship and trade to a more sort of 'Well, what did I make today?' type job.

I think we shifted from doing jobs that produced a material result, with a beginning and an end, to doing jobs that consisted of meeting the needs of people who wanted to spend money from doing jobs, making people feel better after doing their jobs, doing jobs that told people how to do their jobs healthily and safely, doing jobs that told people how to do their jobs with less people and then doing jobs that sold peoples' jobs.

Consequently I have learned how to plumb and wire a bit.

 :agreed:

It does strike me that a lot of careers these days involve doing largely pointless things which boost the egos / bank balances of a small group of individuals, or which make a particular company look more attractive to potential shareholders, but which don't actually deliver any real benefits for the population at large. Meanwhile all the manufacturing has been farmed out to the cheapest bidders, who are unencumbered by inconveniences such as trade unions, minimum wage, human rights, that sort of thing  >:(

Having said that, seeing as I work in IT, I wonder where that fits on the "Well, what did I make today?" scale? I don't make anything physical or tangible, that one can look at and touch and maybe display on the mantelpiece, but I'm sure that the products of my labour are real and useful enough, even if most of my customers are blissfully unaware of them (until such time as they start playing up and I need to fix them). Sorry, off on a bit of a tangent there  :bottom:
We are all in this together, but some of us are more in it than others (with apologies to George Orwell)

Offline kohima

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 05:28:52 pm »
I checked the Guardian and the daily mirror for that report from the BT Chairman, but they didnt carry the story, such news is not reported by them and anyway the guardian is only for jobs in the public sector....

Offline Muggins

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Re: Apprentices | Business, Innovation and Skills | Written Answers
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 06:30:11 pm »
Found this is a Mirror story on the subject, couldn't help chuckling!

"Marks and Spencer boss Sir Stuart Rose said too many school-leavers "cannot do reading...cannot do arithmetic...cannot do writing". But Sir Michael claims it is caused by an "obsession" with pushing more school-leavers to university. He said: "Too many people are going into the wrong courses... many universities are desperate to fill places"

Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/06/28/boss-raps-education-115875-22366147/#ixzz0uL4c6XuR

Seems Sir Rose could do with some help.
Lifes not always fair. Sometimes you can get a splinter even sliding down a rainbow. - Cherralea Morgen

 

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