Author Topic: What is the most we will have to pay...  (Read 1758 times)

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Offline James

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What is the most we will have to pay...
« on: May 10, 2007, 08:01:42 pm »
Having just seen this article, I was wondering about cost.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6642339.stm

At what point is the money better spent on other measures to reduce whatever it is suppoesed to help?

In other words some basic cost benefit analysis.

Given that it seems to have increased by more than 30% today, and we are some time away from it being implemented, at what projected cost level should we stop, simply because it is too much for the defined benefit?

Or has no-one done the maths?
Or not bothered with a benefit calculation?
Or simply don't care because it will be us paying for it through the price of our passports.

I'd like to know, because I can only can see the cost going up.

James

Offline Lynda

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Re: What is the most we will have to pay...
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2007, 06:35:36 am »
James,
I haven't done any new maths agains the 'new' numbers yet.

The cost of the ID Card has two tentacles.

Direct cost  - which is currenty set at £30.
Entry onto the NIR will be charged directly to the individual. £30 whether you want a card or not.

Indirect costs
at last weeks rate.. abot £200 per person through taxes.
This amount will just go up and up and up as yesterdays Dobson report shows us.
It won't stop going up.

To answer the other points...
We should stop now.
The defined benefits don't exist.

The govt. espouses different benefits depending on what's in the news, but the most popular ones...

Prevention of terrorism...
No.. actually this won't happen. Even the Home Office website is clear that ID Cards will not prevent terrorism

Prevention of Illegal working and immigration.
Err... No.
Current legislation requires employes to check workers proof of entitlement to work.
For there to be an illegal worker there is an employer willing to break the law.
ID Cards won't make employers honest.

Benefit Fraud.
Welllll. maybe...
But as the benefit agency calculates and declares that only 2.5 % of claimant are fraudsters and of those most are lying about their circumstances NOT their Identity.. I'd say this was low return on our monies.

Identity Fraud.
The govt says that current forms of ID; passports, Driving licences, utility bills are easy to forge and that ID cards wont be.
Hmmm... perhaps, but the inducemnet to forge an ID card and thus gain entry to The whole register of an individuel is huge. Right now no Govt, databases are joined up.. The Identity Register will change that. What the govt does not refer to is the 'bent clerk' syndrome. No amount of hand wringing will help someone who's Identity record has been sold for a few bob.

So... there's a pocket size benefit analysis - beggars belief doesn't?





Lynda  NO2ID 07802 151464  Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline James

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Re: What is the most we will have to pay...
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2007, 03:00:29 pm »

Looking at this http://www.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/is_jsa_fraud_full_report_apr02_mar03.pdf
and some other stuff on tinternet, I think they could save as much as 200,000,000 per annum on identity based benefit fraud.

The id system will pay for itself in just 25 years, assuming things are about the same as they were in 2002/03.

Only problem (...apart from a ridiculous time-frame, and the fact that costs will probably rise again, and ignoring all of the civil liberties stuff, processing error, passports which may not be able to last for ten years, rfid chips which you can read from distance, and security concerns.
I may have missed some of the downsides. Has Lynda missed any of the upsides?...) is that the cost of reducing this fraud is passd onto us, and the benefit is passed back to government.

A win-win for Whitehall Treasury mandarins. They must be feeling pleased with themselves.

James

Offline James

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Re: What is the most we will have to pay...
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2007, 10:56:58 am »
http://www.identitycards.gov.uk/downloads/2007-05-10CostReport.pdf

A recent report...

Taken from the gruaniad...Feb 3rd...referring to the 1.7bn identity fraud cost...
Quote
"It comprises the cost to a wide range of organisations in both the public and the private sectors but with more up to date figures where these are available, including for the first time a figure of £370m for the cost of identity fraud for the telecommunications industry," said a Home Office spokesman.

Not being funny but this includes private sector costs, though I don't think they are paying for this "benefit"

Anyone know how much the private sector is expected to pay into the ID pot?


James

Offline Lynda

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Re: What is the most we will have to pay...
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2007, 12:09:42 pm »


Not being funny but this includes private sector costs, though I don't think they are paying for this "benefit"

Anyone know how much the private sector is expected to pay into the ID pot?


James

Yes.
Nothing unless you count the 60p per enquiry the Govt. is going to charge organisations for checking your ID against the database ( which you will be forced to participate at the current low charge of £30.00)
The 60p per access charge will not be sent on to you, the data subjest, it'll go into the ID coffer - so if you like that's a contribution.
Lynda  NO2ID 07802 151464  Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline James

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Re: What is the most we will have to pay...
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2007, 09:36:19 pm »
Poking about a bit for £1.7billion...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/03/nid03.xml

Quote
The £1.7 billion included £395 million for "money laundering" even though a Home Office study concedes that this figure is only "illustrative".

The total also includes more than £500 million attributed to the misuse of credit cards, yet only £13 million of this is due to fraudulent applications.

and
http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/2006/02/andy_burnhams_17_billon_identi.html

Quote
£215 million for MITC (Missing Trader Intra-Community) fraud. It can be argued that such mostly international frauds do not even represent a loss to the UK economy, but a net gain.

So £1.7 billion benefit becomes £1.3 billion, becomes £0.8 billion, becomes £0.6 billion (possible £0.4 billion), becomes... ... ...


James

 

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